Home grown nebari

[Jow]

One thing i noticed from visiting and talking with a wide range of nursery owners and workers was that each nursery had their own take on how they did bonsai.... So some grew from cutting, some from seed (and selected those seedlings with the best attributes) Some layered off material that then went into the ground for a number of years.... Each to their own. The same went for de-candling techniques, wiring techniques, branch styling etc.

[craigw60]

Thanks for that Jow. very interesting. I would have guessed they propagated from trees with a proven track record for producing good bonsai material.
Craig

[Jow]

Well you have to remember that Japanese bonsai covers a wide range of growers, All the way from hobby growers like we are up to the commercial growers.
The nursery i worked for bought trees and stock from a range of places. They ranged from the local guys who grew bonsai in their spare time in small towns to the big growers of Saitama, Shikoku and other such areas that do larger scale growing. So you can probably understand that there were a wide range of approaches.

[craigw60]

Thanks for that Jow

[anttal63]

Well you have to remember that Japanese bonsai covers a wide range of growers, All the way from hobby growers like we are up to the commercial growers.
The nursery i worked for bought trees and stock from a range of places. They ranged from the local guys who grew bonsai in their spare time in small towns to the big growers of Saitama, Shikoku and other such areas that do larger scale growing. So you can probably understand that there were a wide range of approaches.

I would imagine that with the different approaches comes differing syles and feeling of work that vary the forms the trees come in from place to place. For example moyogi form from one place , formal upright from another etc. etc. Would it be correct to assume this?

[Jow]

Edit: sorry, miss read you post. No one style really comes from one area. I guess certain growers lean towards growing eithe the styles they like or those that they think will sell.

[anttal63]

Cool mate there for what each grower does, he does properly from the beginning to stamp his style, feeling and form on the tree!

[anttal63]

speaking with jarrod last night/ this morning. he was romping through bonsai street and the hills & fields of kinashi. he sounds like a little kid at a fun park for 1st time.

[Bretts]

What i am trying to say is you wont get a well tapered trident trunk with bad roots...

So what place does it have in this discussion? Like I said I am not saying air layering will magically turn a maple into a pine. Off course air layering won't magically create taper. If the base was that bad you would air layer above the bad base and start again. Sill it will be faster than throwing the tree in the bin and starting again.

Therefore layering is only good for certain situations... At least that's my opinion of why those growing in the ground in Japan don't layer off every tree,

The reason they don't air layer off every tree is because they have good roots I have said this many times this is not about creating bad roots and then air layering them off. This is about bringing stock with bad roots up to a standard at least the same as bonsai that had great roots from the start.
Do you really think that they would walk into a field of tridents in Japan and say "All no good rip them up and throw them in the bin" No they have a range of techniques they would consider for bringing the stock back into line. I just don't see how anyone in their right mind can think otherwise.

I have read articles and even shown snippets from them that state the years needed to create a natural root base from layering, this was in larger size trees. Using other species and smaller sizes this time frame can be reduced considerably.

The beech looked dam fine after 9 years do you think it would have been knocked back from Kokufu for it's roots? I very much doubt you would not get a beech of this size and standard in 9 years. OK add on 2 to separate the layer from the trunk

Maybe you will take me up on my Challenge Jow?

[Bretts]

Hi Jow,
Do the Japanese grow tridents from seed or do they use cuttings from forms selected for whatever good attributes they may have ?
Craig

They also grow a large tree and airlayer several smaller trees off it

[Jow]

I appologise, I don't have the energy to continue this. This will be my last post on the topic. Perhaps we can discuss it further over a bourbon if our paths cross.

[Bretts]

Maybe we can just grow trees instead.

Maybe you will take me up on my Challenge Jow?

Medium sized tree at ten paces what do you say?

[kcpoole]

As Jow says, Lets Continue over a bourbon or 20 when we can all catch up one day and in the meantime get back to Bonsai

ken

[Pup]

It is getting personal guys whether it is in fun or not there are those that will not see it that way.

Brett I though you knew, not to argue with a fool, the Audience do not know the difference

[bodhidharma]

And again good advice Ken. We are now crawling in the gutter on this thread and it is immature and should be beneath a harmonious Bonsai practitioner .