AusBonsai

Found this on garden Web

I am a member of the SA Rose Society and was involved with Neutrog Australia in the development of Sudden Impact for Roses. It was developed over a number of years & is now used by most of the major rose gardens throughout Australia including Flemington Racecourse Rose Garden, Vic State Rose Garden at Werribee & Morwell Rose Garden along with being recommended & endorsed by the Rose Societies in SA, Vic, NSW & Queensland. Members of these Rose Societies have access to larger bag sizes of Sudden Impact at significantly reduced prices direct from the manufacturer.
It is also excellent on all other flowering plants. I suggest you either join your local state rose society (I have attached the link to the Vic Rose Society) or visit the Sudden Impact site listed above where stockists of the product are listed.

http://www.neutrog.com.au/sudden-impact-for-roses

Hi Brett yeah I knew that and they are saying at flemmington since they have been using the sudden impact they have hardly had to spray the roses. For garden use I mix a little dolomite lime with the sudden impact and the results have been too good to be true.
Craig

Might be worth looking for a friend at the rose society to buy in bulk

Just to clarify is dl ok to used with Juniper, bougies and maples???

Iv been using osmocote.

VelvetSicklid wrote:Just to clarify is dl ok to used with Juniper, bougies and maples???

Iv been using osmocote.

Ive been told not to use osmocote by many people. Its because it is "heat reactive" for lack of a better word. Which means it will only release its fertiliser goodness in warmer weather. That is good in theory as you dont want to fertilise in winter, but on a 40 degree day, your pumping fertiliser into a tree that has slowed or stopped its growth. Also I was told it releases salts in high quanities on the really hot days. It is probably fine to use in weather up to 28-30 degrees, but I find I don't need it if I am using thorough fertiliser regime.

Also from my experience with both DL and Seamungus, yes they work great, but I find they go soggy and clumpy on the surface and make drainage poor which is the worst thing for bonsai!! I have tried the seamungus crumble, and that is a little better, but it still clumps on the surface. I have reverted to using Seasol, with a heavy fertiliser regime which seems to be working fine for me.

I am growing mainly deciduous, (mostly maples) but have lost a few Liquidambars as a result of the poor drainage from using DL and Seamungus. I think Liquid ferts is the way to go with modern substrates.

VelvetSicklid wrote:Just to clarify is dl ok to used with Juniper, bougies and maples???

Iv been using osmocote.

I have used DL on all the above (trident)with no issues. Have had problems on Azaleas, Lilli pilli, Japanese Maples, Banksia,
I now use Neutrog sudden impact tho as I can use it on all my trees just vary the amount on them, Natives and Azaleas get less of a hand full on each tree.

Ken

Might use sudden impact on the acer palmatum and leave the DL for everything else, cheers chaps.


Luke, you must pile it on for it to choke your mix???

Hi all,interesting topic,I've been using DL for quite a few years and never really had a problem,got a good idea from a member at Geelong club who makes small pillows with fly screen stapled together and then i fill it with the DL and place onto the tree,needs thorough watering at first but then its ok,my problem is keeping the dogs away from it,they love the stinky smell.Also use osmocote at re-potting time through the soil mix and haven't had any problems either.Have re-potted a Satzuki Azalea late oct last year just started feeding and also used a DL pillow but might remove it after the comments on how they react.My

VelvetSicklid wrote:Might use sudden impact on the acer palmatum and leave the DL for everything else, cheers chaps.


Luke, you must pile it on for it to choke your mix???

Actually I use less than I have seen in some of the photos on here. My problem was I made a potting substrate with coco peat, zeolite, aquatic mix and mixed DL into it. All trees died except one (could've been the other components) I think it was a combination, I have since been using Diatomite, zeolite, and pine bark minis with great results. The thing I hate most about pellet feeds is the soggy sludge it leaves, its near impossible to remove thoroughly. Although the fly screen pillows sound like a good idea. I was thinking about putting DL in a wire food sieve and watering through that so the goodness flows out, but the sludge stays in

Luke308 wrote:

VelvetSicklid wrote:Might use sudden impact on the acer palmatum and leave the DL for everything else, cheers chaps.


Luke, you must pile it on for it to choke your mix???

Actually I use less than I have seen in some of the photos on here. My problem was I made a potting substrate with coco peat, zeolite, aquatic mix and mixed DL into it. All trees died except one (could've been the other components) I think it was a combination, I have since been using Diatomite, zeolite, and pine bark minis with great results. The thing I hate most about pellet feeds is the soggy sludge it leaves, its near impossible to remove thoroughly. Although the fly screen pillows sound like a good idea. I was thinking about putting DL in a wire food sieve and watering through that so the goodness flows out, but the sludge stays in

To be honest i dont think id be game exposing DL to roots directly other than Ficus and i dont apply enough to plants, but i have noticed a sediment left over from DL. Up until now i havent thought it would a problem but now im a bit more conscious of it, thanks mate.

marcela wrote:Hi all,interesting topic,I've been using DL for quite a few years and never really had a problem,got a good idea from a member at Geelong club who makes small pillows with fly screen stapled together and then i fill it with the DL and place onto the tree,needs thorough watering at first but then its ok,my problem is keeping the dogs away from it,they love the stinky smell.Also use osmocote at re-potting time through the soil mix and haven't had any problems either.Have re-potted a Satzuki Azalea late oct last year just started feeding and also used a DL pillow but might remove it after the comments on how they react.My

If you read DL s splurge on its product they will tell you that it will turn the soil alkaline. Which is not what Azaleas like. They like an Acid soil regime.

A lot has been said about getting rid of the spent sludge, if you have a ready supply to old panty hose use them as the keep the DL on the surface, and when spent after four weeks can be replaced with fresh DL.

A better alternative is to get a big drum fill the panty hose with DL let it soak and use the tea at 250mls to ten litres of water. That way you do not have a problem with dogs or cats eating it and making a mess of your trees.
Luke I would look at some other reason for the clogging killing your Liquidambar, as they are swamp trees in North America, DL on fresh Cuts maybe.

Just my Pup

anttal63 wrote:An American fella by the name of John kirby taught this rule of thumb.

Deciduous prefer chemical ferts
Conifer's and broad leaf Evergreen's prefer organic ferts.

I would like to see the data supporting this! It makes no scientific sense to me at all!

All plants take up nutrients in ionic form and whether they come from maufactured or organic sourses, the ''chemicals'' are the same. The difference lies in the fact that maufactured ferts. are much more concentrated than organics, hence you need to apply them at much lower rates.
With regard to Dynamic lifter and similar products, they are based on Chicken manure from the fowl industry and need to be used with caution as they can have very high salinity levels from ammonium as well as Sodium and Choride. They are usually quite alkaline too from the shell grit fed to the birds, so they should be looked on as unsuitible for acid loving plants like azaleas, gardenia even many conifers etc. They can also have P levels too high for many plants inc. natives. They are fine for your vegies or in-ground trees but I think there are better alternatives for bonsai.
I have used them sparingly but I find they release their N too quickly and got very large and rank growth.
The best fertilizer by FAR that I have used is home made cakes 70-30 soybean meal/blood and bone for established trees. Or if you can't be bothered, sprinkle B/B and 5% pottasium sulphate. Seasol will also provide K.
Many people use osmocote for their trees but I still prefer the results with the cakes.

treeman wrote:

anttal63 wrote:An American fella by the name of John kirby taught this rule of thumb.

Deciduous prefer chemical ferts
Conifer's and broad leaf Evergreen's prefer organic ferts.

I would like to see the data supporting this! It makes no scientific sense to me at all!

All plants take up nutrients in ionic form and whether they come from maufactured or organic sourses, the ''chemicals'' are the same. The difference lies in the fact that maufactured ferts. are much more concentrated than organics, hence you need to apply them at much lower rates.
With regard to Dynamic lifter and similar products, they are based on Chicken manure from the fowl industry and need to be used with caution as they can have very high salinity levels from ammonium as well as Sodium and Choride. They are usually quite alkaline too from the shell grit fed to the birds, so they should be looked on as unsuitible for acid loving plants like azaleas, gardenia even many conifers etc. They can also have P levels too high for many plants inc. natives. They are fine for your vegies or in-ground trees but I think there are better alternatives for bonsai.
I have used them sparingly but I find they release their N too quickly and got very large and rank growth.
The best fertilizer by FAR that I have used is home made cakes 70-30 soybean meal/blood and bone for established trees. Or if you can't be bothered, sprinkle B/B and 5% pottasium sulphate. Seasol will also provide K.
Many people use osmocote for their trees but I still prefer the results with the cakes.

Hi,

Thanks for the tip, the homemade cakes sound like a cheaper excersize too.

I quite like DL but I'm most successful with ficus; conifers and olive. I do tend to let it "rest" for a while (mostly through laziness - a new bag ends up being applied mosty to the vege patch) before using it on the bonsai

Hi all ... Was looking at using neutrog for roses on some Lilly pillies as Ken does at reduced rates ( as well as figs and pines ) it has a NPK of 9/4/12. I also had a look at DL for roses which has a level of 10/2/12. Given the lower P level of DL for roses would this not be a better option?? From the thread i think only the original DL was discussed? Has anyone had experience with DL for roses? Any advice much appreciated!