Bonsai - Its Art, Science, History and Philosophy by Deborah

[Elmar]

R E S P E C T is the key word.
If you can tell someone they suck and the walk away smiling you're doing it right!


Cheers
Elmar

[dansai]

Ive watched this thread since it started and have been interested in the way it has bounced around and also brought forward alot of ideas. I'm not about to offer any critique of the Koreschoffs having had no dealings with them. I do have the book in question and have found it a great source of information. I have found some of the horticulture aspects out of date with current methods but that is to be expected. As for critique of other trees I agree with both bonsaibuddyman and Treeman.

I attended the Australian Natives as Bonsai Symposium last year which was held in Canberra and took along some trees. I had never exhibited a tree before and didn't know what was involved and was unsure if my trees would be good enough. I asked one of the organisors for advice and she told me just bring them along. I though they would be looked over before being put on display. Little did I know they were in the catalogue already and on display they went. Looking at the other trees I was rather embarrassed by mine but felt it was a bit late and put it down to experience. At the end of the Symposium a critique of some of the trees were given by Roger Hnautiuk. You can imagine my surprise when I walked in and saw the first tree he had ready for critique.

It was my 5 trunk Port Jackson Fig, tall, skinny, young and underdeveloped. The man sitting next to me grunted and said "5 chopsticks" with a laugh. Roger is a strong proponent of a Bonsai not having a front, and described my tree as delightful. He loved the way when you moved around it the changing angle made the trunks move around each other in a pleasing way. Something I loved about it as well. I could never decide on a front. Interesting the way different people see things differently.

My first ever visit to a show was the Bonsai Society of Sydney show about 4 years ago. I took a friend who had even less knowledge of Bonsai than I did at the time. As we travelled down the then F3 from the central coast we passed under 14 rainbows, always atlas 3 visible at the one time. They were still going as we turned off onto the pacific highway. We were entranced by the trees and one of Megumi Bennets forests stood out and my friend described seeing a little hut and a man walking down a pathway with an axe over his shoulder. He spoke to a young girl who also saw the hut and a dog running. Im sure she probably saw fairies too.

Bonsai is a whole lot of horticulture and for some art. There is technique, skill and talent. But it also excites the imagination and great bonsai, like any great art, suggests far more than what is presented before us in the bark. If I can create a tree that children look at and see fairies dancing around it then I will be a happy man.

[Rory]

I attended the Australian Natives as Bonsai Symposium last year which was held in Canberra and took along some trees. I had never exhibited a tree before and didn't know what was involved and was unsure if my trees would be good enough. I asked one of the organisors for advice and she told me just bring them along. I though they would be looked over before being put on display. Little did I know they were in the catalogue already and on display they went. Looking at the other trees I was rather embarrassed by mine but felt it was a bit late and put it down to experience. At the end of the Symposium a critique of some of the trees were given by Roger Hnautiuk. You can imagine my surprise when I walked in and saw the first tree he had ready for critique.

It was my 5 trunk Port Jackson Fig, tall, skinny, young and underdeveloped. The man sitting next to me grunted and said "5 chopsticks" with a laugh. Roger is a strong proponent of a Bonsai not having a front, and described my tree as delightful. He loved the way when you moved around it the changing angle made the trunks move around each other in a pleasing way. Something I loved about it as well. I could never decide on a front. Interesting the way different people see things differently.

Dansai, that is an excellent summation of this thread, very wise. You have conveyed the issue in a visual manner so that hopefully it is appreciated from other angles by all.

[Ryceman3]

In short... If you haven't already ...
"READ THE BOOK!!"
The fact there is so much conjecture in relation to this title means that anybody who hasn't had the pleasure/displeasure of picking it up probably should decide for themselves whether they find it a Bonsai Bible, a waste of time or something in between.
I assume we're all still talking about the book right??

[Pup]

In short... If you haven't already ...
"READ THE BOOK!!"
The fact there is so much conjecture in relation to this title means that anybody who hasn't had the pleasure/displeasure of picking it up probably should decide for themselves whether they find it a Bonsai Bible, a waste of time or something in between.
I assume we're all still talking about the book right??

The less people know the more they talk about it. Just my

[Andrew Legg]

LMAO

This is a fantastically cool thread! I've just ready it from cover to cover.

I love the fact that you folks can have this discussion and for four whole pages nobody has a hissy fit and resigns from the forum in a huff, or no mods are needed to rush in and settle everyone down lr close the thread. People, that's a great sign of a healthy forum.

As with any art, we'll disagree with eachother all the time. Heck, if we watch a movie, we'd have 23 opinions amongst 16 of us. Why would a book be any different. I like the book personally, but I guess that does not mean everyone else has to. I also think we are a bit spoilt these days with this thing called the Internet. It kinda kicks ass when it comes to learning. Of course it to is filled with info of varying quality, possibly even more so because it takes very little to stick something on it. All I can say is kudos to Deborah for having the staying power to write what seems to me to be a well put together piece or literature on our hobby. Whether its a hundred percent accurate or not, or whether some folks don't like it makes little difference to me.

[kcpoole]

LMAO

This is a fantastically cool thread! I've just ready it from cover to cover.

I love the fact that you folks can have this discussion and for four whole pages nobody has a hissy fit and resigns from the forum in a huff, or no mods are needed to rush in and settle everyone down lr close the thread. People, that's a great sign of a healthy forum.

Very interesting discussion it is too

Ken

[Grant Bowie]

I first met Dot, Vita, Deborah and Ruslana in 1970.

There is no doubt that the Koreshoffs as a whole have had a huge, beneficial influence on bonsai in Australia.

Deborahs book is a distilation of all she learnt from her father, mother and her own thoughts, artistry and input. As such it it is a masterpiece.

Basic horticulture is better covered elsewhere and was never a strong point of their teaching; you must remember that their influence is mostly Chinese and their fertilising and soil mixes for instance are very different to a Japanese/European/Australian way of doing things now and in recent past.

Nevertheless it is a great, artistic book and artistry can go in very unexpected directions with flights of imagination.

It is a pity Deborah is no longer involved in Bonsai.

Grant

[treeman]

Bonsai is a whole lot of horticulture and for some art. There is technique, skill and talent. But it also excites the imagination and great bonsai, like any great art, suggests far more than what is presented before us in the bark.

I very much agree with this point (although a little off the subject I guess)
A great bonsai specimen has the power to grab your imagination (if you have it ) and suggest to you its surroundings.
For example, a forest bonsai can suggest a deep forest much larger than the sum of its parts. A good broom elm planted in just the right way and in just the right pot, can create the image of of a vast field stretching out in front of it in your mind.
I think all masterpiece bonsai do this to some extent and everyone should make it their aim.

[treeman]

In short... If you haven't already ...
"READ THE BOOK!!"

I don't need to and I don't want to. I had her Native bonsai paperback. That was more than enough thanks.
I have no doubt that much work and effort was put into it but so much work and effort was also put into Federation Square too!
I have in front of me a copy of International Bonsai 1992 No.1. One of Koreshoff's trees is featured in the ''Contemporary Masterpiece Series'' If you can believe that. Anyway, it is a European Beech. started from seed in 1960. This pic was taken in 1991 (31 years!) By most standards, it is a very average tree. The kind you would see in any exibition. Have a look if you have a copy.
The branching is very course and inelegant. Another 31 years would not improve this tree very much. It does not have good foundation of branches.
Now have a look at some of the many Japanese beech examples in the same mag and you will see the difference. Some would not be much older but the artstic skill and vision is far superior.
These are the trees and the creators we should take notice of.
I say talk or write all you want but show me your damned trees!

[kcpoole]

This pic was taken in 1991 (31 years!) By most standards, it is a very average tree. The kind you would see in any exibition. Have a look if you have a copy.

can you take a pic of it and post so we can all have a look. Getting hold of old mags are a problem form many and I am sure in the light of this discussion any copyright issues should be OK.
( we can always take it down if we get a request or threat )

Ken

[Pup]

Deborah Koreshoff did not write the book on natives, her parents did.

Show us your trees.

[treeman]

Deborah Koreshoff did not write the book on natives, her parents did.

My mistake. However it makes no difference whatsoever to my initial point as can be seen below.

Show us your trees

My statement was not directed at anyone in particular Pup. Just to say that the ''proof is in the pudding''

[treeman]

can you take a pic of it and post so we can all have a look.

The best I can do. The background is similar in colour to the leaves.

003.JPG

001.JPG

[Elmar]

G'day Treeman,
I take it that is the Koreshoff exhibit!?!
Can you put up the comparison also.


Cheers
Elmar