AusBonsai

thoglette wrote:

Edit: you deserve more that that. Without writing a dissertation on symbolism and aesthetics, the reason you "don't get" penjing is exactly the same reason you think bonsai "look nice". Penjing is still culturally foreign, bonsai is not.

I don't really care that it's foreign. I don't like it and understanding it more deeply will not change my mind. Going from bonsai to penjing (in the comonly understood form) would be a step backward for me. It is visually unappealing after having seen the more refined and tasteful product. That is why I personally cannot understand the interest from westerners.
Looking at John's pics above reminds me why I don't care for it. (sorry John)
The first one - a skinny chinese elm laying on top a piece of dead wood is to me lazy and rushed. It would probably look alright viewed from 20 metres away.
The second is just an average attempt at a root over rock. The placement of figuerines to make it look realistic in fact does the opposite. It introduces a sense of scale and makes the tree look very course. To be in proper scale with the figure the tree should have very fine twigs not heavy branches right to the tips. As is it grates. Why is it that the Japanese (most) frown on using these tacky figureines? Because they remove the suggestiveness of bonsai. (the freedom to imagine the landscape around and beyond the tree) and they interfere with the illusion.
Interprate it as you will, penjing is just very rough by comparison and it's no use to say we should not compare because they are both there in front of us.

Have a look at these Chinese trees and tell me which you find the most and least impressive and why.

http://valavanisbonsaiblog.com/2013/09/ ... xhibition/

No 9 on this page is what I would call a Chinese masterpiece. It really shows the differences that I was taliking about. Say between no, 1 or 3 and 9

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/top10-chinese-penjing

treeman wrote: I don't like it and understanding it more deeply will not change my mind. Going from bonsai to penjing (in the comonly understood form) would be a step backward for me. It is visually unappealing after having seen the more refined and tasteful product.

Like most Westerners you (&I) have had several decades of exposure to bonsai (for a while there every "bad guy in a suit" had one in his office in the movies) and the aesthetic principles behind them.

As long as you view penjing from a bonsai perspective they will look less refined. Likewise, if you view bonsai from a penjing perspective, most bonsai are without meaning and are (therefore) less refined.

That's what I was saying.

I thought this thread is supposed to be for people to show some of Mr. Hong Lin's work. Out of respect, the discussion between Penjing and Bonsai should be in another thread.

The funny thing is, Penjing is just Chinese for Bonsai (which is Japanese). They are more or less the same. Although bonsai tends to work on the refinement of one tree, Penjing extends beyond this into scenery created in pots. Where a single tree is the feature, a Penjing can just be refined if not more. It is understandable that some people don't understand Penjing. It is a lot easier, in my mind, to understand a single tree (Bonsai) than the complicated scenery created by balancing Earth, Water and Wood which you can find in many examples of Penjing.

longd_au wrote:I thought this thread is supposed to be for people to show some of Mr. Hong Lin's work. Out of respect, the discussion between Penjing and Bonsai should be in another thread.

I have removed a couple of posts that were starting to become somewhat accusing.
May I ask that you all respect each others opinions while conduction the discussions, and also to keep them on topic too

Ken

Probably would have been better just to split the penjing/bonsai discussion off to another thread - I was finding it interesting.

JaseH wrote:I was finding it interesting.

Same here, that why I left it.

Mr Lins collection would have been amazing to see and to hear people ideas and thoughts on the comparisons to Bonsai is most enlightening.
Just stay within the boundaries of courtesy and all will be fine

Ken

Morning all,

Here's an update on my Elm originally from Mr. Lin's collection. Not much colour again this year and it hadn't dropped its leaves so I defoliated last night as the new growth was already starting.
I removed any branches that had thickened too much as well as cutting back any that were straight.
Regards,
Steven

Hi Steven,

That is a great example of Hong Lin's work. Deserves a better pot now to really set it off.

Grant

Steven wrote:Here's an update on my Elm originally from Mr. Lin's collection. Not much colour again this year and it hadn't dropped its leaves so I defoliated last night as the new growth was already starting.
I removed any branches that had thickened too much as well as cutting back any that were straight.

Come on Steven get it together man. The tree deserves a better photo than that!!! O.K, pretty please can we have a better, clearer shot.

bodhidharma wrote:Come on Steven get it together man. The tree deserves a better photo than that!!!

Sorry Diederik

Steven wrote:

bodhidharma wrote:Come on Steven get it together man. The tree deserves a better photo than that!!!

Sorry Diederik

2017 July (1R).JPG

2017 July (2R).JPG

Great photography yet again steven

So tell me Steven.

What classifies your elm as penjing rather than bonsai?

Can you enter penjing in a bonsai exhibition and if so, how would it be judged?

I am following this thread with great interest.

Squizzy

Interesting question Squizzy! Someone more learned that I is best to answer that. Maybe Hard1all?

Regards,
Steven