100% Diatomite?

[Jamie]

Ant is correct in the fact that everyones mix will be completely different to the next whether it is at your place, a person next door to the person down the road to the person on the otherside of the country, mixing mediums to suit your micro climate is the best way to do things, when i first started i just used commercial bonsai mixes which were ok to start with, as i got more serious bout my trees i looked into other things, soil mixes, where the trees are positioned, how much water is needed, fertilising. it all comes into account with our micro climate, even the water we use will be completely different, i have moved 3 times in the past 5 years and each and every place even though only within 5 minute drive of each other in the same suburb the water was completely different, ph level and hardness.

it is ok to give advice to people in different locations but we can only give a guide and reasons to what would be good, in the long run they will need to work out what is best for their micro climate

yes there are a lot of differing factors brett, using a debco mix will raise the water table as the particles are smaller, which raises it as we know, the diatomite i use is 2-7mm, i use it straight normally but have been adding some organic just to soften it a little. i have now started mixing with spongalite (richgro aquatic mix) and beleive this will be quite a good mix, i found the sponglite dries out reasonably quickly, that with diatomite would work well i beleive as the spongalite is slightly larger in particle size, and the diatomite slightly smaller, giving the overall pot a good water table/air ratio mix.

time will tell

jamie

[Glenda]

Yes that's a good point Jamie. But constant rian non stop is going to keep any medium wet. I still have trouble believing that the Diatomite would not be healthier than a mix that is mainly debaco.
If you compared solid gravel to diatomite in this situation with roots filling the pot. Both mediums would still only have the same amount of water to use before the air water ratio was acceptable. (Remember any extra water the Diatomite holds over the gravel is inside the diatomite) But I think the compaction of a 70% debaco mix would make it perform worse than both these mediums in constant rain. The pore size would have to be smaller and hence it would have a higher water surface tension holding a higher water than air ratio.

It's pretty simple Antonio just add more or less Spag moss.

I live in Mackay and we have torrential rains in summer. My plants stay out in it ALL the time, and the diatomite plants thrive. The top layer of diatomite goes green with algae, but it doesn't bother the plants at all.

Glenda

[dayne]

how long have you had plants in this mix glenda and bretts if you grow a plant in a pot of brick pieces or sponge pieces the two plants will have differnt moisture sarounding the roots even if the air in betwen is the same the sponges will have a far greater moisture content and will hold it for longer =wetter for longer =plants roots too wet

[corko]

Howdy all, just wondering if anybody knows where I can buy some diatomite? I live on the central coast of NSW, near Gosford.

G'day corko, it would be worth trying your local Produce stores and of course Garden or Nursery Supplies.

Dunno about Maidenwell these days, but give the guys at mt sylvia and email and ask them who supplies where you are.
http://www.mtsylviadiatomite.com.au/

Ken

Thanks Ken

[Glenda]

how long have you had plants in this mix glenda .........

Been using 100% diatomite on some trees now for about 8 months. Have just got in a heap of diatomite, and will be changing almost all my trees to diatomite (except for camphor laurels which like more water) Have had NO problems with diatomite. Plants are thriving. I find it great for striking cuttings, too.

Glenda

[anttal63]

how long have you had plants in this mix glenda and bretts if you grow a plant in a pot of brick pieces or sponge pieces the two plants will have differnt moisture sarounding the roots even if the air in betwen is the same the sponges will have a far greater moisture content and will hold it for longer =wetter for longer =plants roots too wet

Yes you got that right Dayne, Its very easy

[Bretts]

The problem is you guys are thinking too simple. It is lack of air that will cause problems not too much water. The diatomite holds the extra water inside itself which means it actually has more air surrounding the roots than a 70% debaco mix.
The guy in Vic reckons it won't hold enough water in the heat but the guy up north reckons it holds too much in the rain. That in itself is a contradiction.

[Gareth]

i Agree totally, if it is free draining it doesnt matter. Diatomite would have to be one of the most free draining mixes out there, any other mix in a wet environment would be MORE prone to water logging not less.

And you still need a free draining mix in dry areas, and if it drys out too quickly add some more water holding material like organic material, and maybe even some diatomite fines or dust and water it in every so often.

[dayne]

mine is allready moldy and covered in slime thats not a good thing after about 6 months you can do what you like ill do what i like it so simple if water leaks out all day its too much it just dosnt dry out up here our humidity is over 60% most of the year some trees yes others no

[Glenda]

mine is allready moldy and covered in slime thats not a good thing after about 6 months you can do what you like ill do what i like it so simple if water leaks out all day its too much it just dosnt dry out up here our humidity is over 60% most of the year some trees yes others no

Dayne, I am much further north than you where it is much more humid, and more likely to have monsoonal rain. The slime does not harm any of my plants - and is the result of the nitrogen in the fertalizer. It only grows on mine in the pots that are in more shade than sun, and the pot is full of roots and the trees really need repotting. Move them into the sun, and the slime dies. When I replant, I spread out the old diatomite in a tray placed in the sun to dry, then wash through a sieve to remove the dried slime, then reuse.

Since soil is full of mould spores anyway (that's what gives it the 'earthy' smell) they won't harm your trees.

Glenda

[Bretts]

mine is allready moldy and covered in slime thats not a good thing after about 6 months you can do what you like ill do what i like it so simple if water leaks out all day its too much it just dosnt dry out up here our humidity is over 60% most of the year some trees yes others no

Agian Dayne this makes me think there is something else going on here. Any medium will stop drianing something as little as 10mins after getting watererd(or rained on) Water will only leak out all day if water is entering the top of the pot all day. The pot will take up all the water it can and excess runs out the bottom. This excess equalises in a matter of minutes and is no noticeable difference from medium to medium.
No matter how much water Diatomite holds it will not continue to seep out water. It will only continue to release what excess is applied to the pot same as any other medium. It may look like water is continually coming out the bottom of a pot when the bench stays wet but believe me this is not possible.
Take one of these trees water it and let it drain for 20minutes then put it in a drain tray to see if anymore comes out and you will see what I am saying.

But as you say your trees in Diatomite seem to be waterlogged I always say a tree that uses lots of water shows it is healthy. I can have a tree in the best draining mix but if it is not healthy it will stay wet. I can have a healthy tree in a crappy collapsed mix and it will take as much water as I can give it.
I wonder if there is a health factor that is only present in the Diatomite that is causing this issue.
Maybe the 100% diatomite mix is being under fertilized. Walter states a medium like this should be very heavily fertilised. The trees in 70% debaco would be getting the extra nutrients from the composted humus. More nutrients more root and shoot growth means more water used. I would be checking and comparing the root systems of the debaco to the diatomite.

It is sometimes to simplistic to jump to an obvious conclusion. Used Diatomite trees where water logged must be that diatomite holds too much water. I see it hapen so often. Watered banksia with seasol. Banksia died, Seasol kills banksia People will go out and say this instead of buying a few $3 banksias and seeing if their theory is correct.
Walter gives a good example here that is somewhat relevant
http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/ ... -myth.html

[dayne]

bretts when the diatomite dries out where does the water go it must go some where you say it dosnt come out but it dries out ???
glenda the slime isnt from the nitrogen the problem where having in this site is people jump in to posts and start quoteing things without the knolwedge behind it from your photo gallery i dont see a tree more than about 2yrs old most of mine re between 8-50+ yrs old i dont know why people are so into posting its like a comp but dont ever post their quality trees to back their theory up

[Bretts]

so when the diatomite dries out where does the water go it must go some where you say it dosnt come out but it dries out ???

Once the surface tension equalizes no more water will drain out. The water left in the medium only leaves by evaporation(not much) or mainly by the plant sucking it up with it's roots and transpiring out the leaves.
The healthier a tree the more water it will suck out of the medium.

[Fred]

Hi Folks

When you talk of Daitomite, are you referrring to the clay itself or the fired clay balls like Harry Harrison uses in the UK. For a 100% Diatomite mix, what solid fertiliser are you adding and what liquid fertilizer regime are you using?

How does the100% Daitomite work for acid loving plants like Azaleas, Rhodos and Camellias? My understanding is that Diatomite is neutral - a pH of 7. Do you need to adjust using inorganic fertilizer? If not used 100%, peat or coconut coir could be added.

What particle size are the zeolites used? Is it a powder or in a ball form?

What does Debco consist of? Is it a bark or peat compost, potting mix?

Fred

[kvan64]

Hi Fred, Diatomite is a natural substrate obtained from the mine just like zeolite. Unlike clayballs, these substrates are more porous and hence can retain more water than clayball. The pores/holes also help absorb and trap ammonium, reducing the chances of ammonium toxicity in your plants.