AusBonsai

pup, you have put that very well, out of all people i think you are one that deserves to stand on that soap box and speak. like you and others i have learnt so much in the past months i have been here, then i had the four or so years fumbling around with books.

very much appreciated to the people that have put the time and effort in helping me and continue to.
hopefully oneday i can do the same for others as the people that have help me have done for me


jamie

Brett knows what I refer to

Not sure if I am in trouble or not
Sitting around chatting and sipping tea watching you work sounds like a great way to spend the afternoon Pup. But I do get what you mean. Being stuck out here in the sticks suxs when I think of what I could be doing with the rest of ya's.
I would love to head to a workshop every month. Hmm

A really good bonsai nursery would need to be an inter-generational thing so there is time to build a stock of very high quality trees, I would guess that will happen in time here in Aus.

It's happening now with Clinton posed to carry on from his Dad I have a feeling the prices will go up though

Jamie wrote:.... and have some sort of covering on the soil, usually glued stones

Ah ... the first ever tree I bought (from Kmart) last month had those glued stones. Thankfully it was a Liquidamber and survived - I think it had probably been in the store - the 'nursery' in Kmart Katoomba is inside the store - since well before Christmas as a Christmas present item.

Ron wrote:

Bretts wrote:...Mallsai ..

A 'Bonsai'bought in a shopping mall

That is right Ron An apt name for them

Hi Brett,
The prices probably should go up have you noticed the cost of advanced trees in the nurseries and they are just grown with minimal care. As you know to grow first class bonsai starters takes maximum care and skill.
Craig

Mojo Moyogi wrote:

Pup wrote:Jamie I hope your welding is better than your wiring.

Jamie, if you fork out for the plane ticket, come down to my place and I will hold you hostage until the wiring looks absolutely textbook.
My wife has just barked that I should tell you that I am a very impatient and grumpy teacher, but I am results driven!


Mojo

remind me not to visit you mojo , if the opportunity came up.... my wiring is worse

craigw60 wrote:Hi Brett,
The prices probably should go up have you noticed the cost of advanced trees in the nurseries and they are just grown with minimal care. As you know to grow first class bonsai starters takes maximum care and skill.
Craig

Shh Craig it was bad enough when Peter Adams told Ray what his Pines would sell for in the states
Should have seen the smile on Clintons face

A nursery here in echuca has started selling malsai, got very pissed off with me when I told her they were over priced ($50- for a trident twig in a ity bity pot)

told me that she had had some bonsai afficionados in who raved over her trees and thought they were wonderfull

I have plenty of crappy trees, but at least I didn't pay for them, they are teaching me the basics of lifting, propagating and pretraining. The niceties of leaf reduction are so far down the track I don't worry about them yet, just keep moving them on and playing with ideas season by season. (I'm soon to update bonsai age to 4, as olive #1 has an anniversary in March)

Like Craig, most of my gardening time goes elsewhere, these keep me occupied in spare moments and off season

paddles wrote:A nursery here in echuca has started selling malsai, got very pissed off with me when I told her they were over priced ($50- for a trident twig in a ity bity pot)

told me that she had had some bonsai afficionados in who raved over her trees and thought they were wonderfull

well this is your first challenge mate, you gotta stop people from buying these mallsai and show them what real bonsai are

Greth wrote:I have plenty of crappy trees, but at least I didn't pay for them, they are teaching me the basics of lifting, propagating and pretraining. The niceties of leaf reduction are so far down the track I don't worry about them yet, just keep moving them on and playing with ideas season by season. (I'm soon to update bonsai age to 4, as olive #1 has an anniversary in March)

Like Craig, most of my gardening time goes elsewhere, these keep me occupied in spare moments and off season

its a different thing with collecting greth, and i could just about bet anything that is collected is going to have more potential and chance of living then some of the trees that can be bought from kmart and the likes.

jamie

Um ok feel free to re-direct me but what exactly is done to a bonsai starter over the 5-10 years?

Rugg wrote:Um ok feel free to re-direct me but what exactly is done to a bonsai starter over the 5-10 years?

i wouldnt call it a starter as such if it was 5-10 years, especially if ground grown. that would be a stock tree or pre trained tree a ground grown tree will be grown to increase size,movement and taper, it will be monitered and chopped down at certain times and points on the tree to increase the taper and movement. or it will be left to grow for size as when a tree is chopped for taper it slows the growth down which will take longer in the ground but that is a sacrifice that needs to be made to gain taper which is something i belive is a crucial part to a tree.

it will also towards the end of that time be lifted from the ground and potted to start refinement of branching and structure. or sold as is.

jamie

Rugg, what the mallsai people do to a seedling to get it into a bonsai pot fast is a bit like putting a 5 year old girl in a training bra, more damaging tho.
A good bonsai starter seedling/cutting needs plenty of root run. Tho it may be useful to discourage a big taproot from developing, it needs either a biggish grow pot or ground growing to get the fast strong growth which will thicken up the trunk and give the tree more apparent age. Most of my plants are somewhere in this stage, and probably will be for a few years.
I can do some trimming to select the basic major branches and structure now, get back budding close to the trunk while I can, wire the trunk for more movement before it gets too thick and hard.
Mostly the job at my stage is to get the plants growing as well as possible, so a good time to really get to know the species.
My understanding anyway.

Once it goes into a bonsai pot, it will have to have serious root trimming and its growth will slow down dramatically. Basically the mallsai people are in the business of crippling potentially good seedlings. The same seedlings in a rich growing mix in an 8" pot would be much more valuable for a good bonsai in the long run.

Hi Rugg,
Growing a bonsai from scratch is like erecting a building, you need to start from the base and work up. To get a beautiful root base (which gives the tree a sense of stability ) takes a few years of development. On top of that you need to develop a nice smooth taper which also takes a fair bit of cutting back and re growing. If you were in Japan you would go to a nursery and buy something with at least 10 years training in most cases more like 20 and that would be your starter tree The longer you spend preparing your trees for life in a bonsai pot the better they will be.
Craig

Thank you all for your advice ... I was given a "Mallsai" and a few others and i think its time they went into some nice big pots for a few years

I'll do a search around the local nurserys and see if i can find someone who can supply somthing a little more advanced.
I think ive found a local club too so hopefully they will steer me in the right direction.