AusBonsai

bodhidharma wrote:As ever, it will always come down to a personal preference. I will refuse though, to make a blanket statement about, is it good, or isnt it good, as i have seen good presentations of tree's with and without accents.

I don't think the question was "Are figurines good or bad", they were asking if it is Bonsai thus accepted in a Bonsai display. No they are not under strict conditions and the pure definition of Bonsai, just as a rock next to the tree would exclude it too.
Personally I find them pleasing, if used tactfully in a display.


Figurines come in many shapes, sizes and ages justs as pots do. As with pots they can be ridiculously out of place, can corrupt the display or just look cheap and tacky.
Many figurines produced between 5-100 years ago appear mass produced, utilise colours which distroy the harmony and generally make the display looks a lil silly to Bonsai artists.
This is what they were designed for. The reason is, they were center pieces to be the first thing you notice, like a brightly coloured bouquet of flowers at the entrance to a house. Penjing does not have the rule, the tree must be dominant as Bonsai does. Thus opens up the option of being the center of attention.

However, there are indeed figurines out there such as the classic "mudmen", which are aesthetically pleasing on their own or in a display. They do not draw undue attention to themselves and blend with the setting. If the figurine is complementary to the setting it should not be the first thing you notice, it should not over-power the tree and you should only notice them when examining the setting closer.

If you search for figurines being made within the last 5 years, you will notice a change in style from the somewhat awful mass produced stuff available from previous years. They are now starting to realise, if it is to create harmony within the setting it needs to be subtle, not like the attention seeking figurines you think of with bright prime yellows/blues/reds and greens. The art of placing a subtle figurine was lost some 300 years ago, it is now being brought back with figurines utilising dulled / washed colours, light blues, whites, creams etc.

It makes one think, do we have pre-conceived ideas, that figurines all have bright colours are ugly and wrong or mis-placed?
What if the figurine was designed as a complement not a dominant feature. What if it was not noticed when the Bonsai was first veiwed and the setting was pleasing, is it an evil that it is still present? What if we removed the figurine and the tree then lacked something. Does that mean it is lacking as bonsai or missing a complement? What if we styled and styled but never yielded, such a pleasing feeling as when viewed with the figurine present? Have we then lost something? If so what? Were we foolish to remove it?

Mitchell wrote:

bodhidharma wrote:As ever, it will always come down to a personal preference. I will refuse though, to make a blanket statement about, is it good, or isnt it good, as i have seen good presentations of tree's with and without accents.

I don't think the question was "Are figurines good or bad", they were asking if it is Bonsai thus accepted in a Bonsai display. No they are not under stict conditions and the pure definition of Bonsai, just as a rock next to the tree would exclude it too.
Personally I find them pleasing, if used tactfully in a display.

I agree Mitchell,but i think you would be talking about The Tokyo Museum Exhibition or similar. We certainly dont have exhibits like that here in Australia. Not to my Knowledge anyway, we only have Club shows mainly and i do not think the rules, if any, apply.

bodhidharma wrote:
I agree Mitchell,but i think you would be talking about The Tokyo Museum Exhibition or similar. We certainly dont have exhibits like that here in Australia. Not to my Knowledge anyway, we only have Club shows mainly and i do not think the rules, if any, apply.

That's exactly what I was thinking after posting. In Australia, you don't see many because, yes, many find them un-appealing not because they are excluded by the rules.

I haven't come across a actual rule stating that figurines are not aloud when showing bonsai, I think it is a preference of most exhibitors. a figurine is no more or less than a stone, coloured gravel or moss. it should be classed as part of the pot and judged accordingly. A gaudy figurine would lose you points here it may also lose you points in the character part. So I would advise to use figurines, stones, coloured gravel and even placement of moss with disgression. However, the right figurine may capture the judges interest and benifit your overall score.

i have seen first hand some pretty obvious child slave labour in making some of these "mudmen" while travelling thru vietnam! we kinda just stumble upon a tiny little workshop and the older guy there went off his tree at us.
it really was sad. they were very young like 6-15yrs old. my wife says it wasnt slave labour but the conditions were very very poor.
its for that reason i dont use them!

again just my 2cents worth

damo

Mitchell wrote:"The notion of excluding accent figures with a traditional bonsai is comparatively recent from a historical viewpoint , early accounts from the 14th century confirm Japanese bonsai artists did indeed include figurines with their potted landscape arrangements from the earliest times, only as recently as the 15th century were such garnishes decidedly excluded by the Japanese artists in order to simplify the Zen of bonsai to its present day form."


Might be worth checking this out.

http://www.artofbonsai.org/feature_articles/mudman.php

That's really interesting. I always assumed the use of figurines was a more recent trend after reading about "mambonsai". I had no idea it was so old.


The bonsai nursery near my place has a lot of figurines. I don't like all of them, but there are some really classy ones. Maybe it's just because I love ornaments, and especially animal ornaments, but I like them. I think they can be really good at reinforcing scale, too.

Then again, I have plans of eventually mimicking Hobbiton (Bag End more specifically, probably) in bonsai form, so maybe tacky is my middle name.

aussiedamo wrote:i have seen first hand some pretty obvious child slave labour in making some of these "mudmen" while travelling thru vietnam! we kinda just stumble upon a tiny little workshop and the older guy there went off his tree at us.
it really was sad. they were very young like 6-15yrs old. my wife says it wasnt slave labour but the conditions were very very poor.
its for that reason i dont use them!

again just my 2cents worth

damo

This was said to me just recently by a Rotarian, you know the people that do good, and help the needy and give out scholarships. I must admit it took me by surprise.

( quote these do gooders give me the shari's In countries like China Vietnam Indonesia. They have no welfare programs, so even if the pay they get is poor they eat if they do not work they do not eat!) a catch 20 for us, we know they are underpaid by our standards, but they are eating.

As for the topic it is not usually excepted in Bonsai, but with Penjing and Saikei, it is. If it is an informal display they can be used, remembering that what ever detracts from the tree is wrong.

Cheers Pup

I actually have a couple of Merkats standing upright- the detail on them is amazing - made in Germany. When my african lilac is ready I will create a couple of mounds and have them looking out from near a burrow. I think it will look awesome.