Page 2 of 2
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 23rd, 2023, 3:28 pm
by shibui
Other pinus sp, that I have experience with, take 18 months for cones to ripen. I expect that JWP will be similar.
That means that cones pollinated last spring will be ripe in autumn next year.
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 23rd, 2023, 4:01 pm
by TimS
shibui wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2023, 3:28 pm
Other pinus sp, that I have experience with, take 18 months for cones to ripen. I expect that JWP will be similar.
That means that cones pollinated last spring will be ripe in autumn next year.
Cheers Neil, appreciate it, i'll let it do it's thing for now. Planning to try to air layer the branch they are on, should i wait until after the cones have ripened to layer?
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 23rd, 2023, 5:00 pm
by SuperBonSaiyan
Thank you Neil and Kirky for your detailed responses.
I would have just put them into a pot, so you've likely increased my chances of success many times over.
My typical seedling / cutting mix is 80% perlite and 20% coco coir. I learned of this from Bonsaify. I've a little while before I need to put it into a mix, but any thoughts on whether this should be appropriate?
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 23rd, 2023, 5:16 pm
by shibui
Perlite/coir is a good seedling mix. Vary the perlite grade according to how fine the seeds are but for large seed like white pine any of the perlite grades should do.
Commercial seed raising mix is another good alternative.
Seed raising mix needs to: hold enough moisture through to the next watering but not remain soggy, drain well, have plenty of air spaces, fine enough particles that seed won't wash through too deep, be reasonably free of pathogens.
Both the above mixes meet those requirements.
Understand that both those mixtures have next to no nutrients. Seed has stored nutrients to get the seedlings started but within a few weeks those seedlings must find nutrients or starve. It is imperative that seedlings are either transferred to individual pots with real potting mix including readily available nutrients or that we begin to fertilise. Fertiliser can be used almost from germination but certainly withing a week or 2 before seed stores are depleted.
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 23rd, 2023, 7:18 pm
by KIRKY
Personally I wouldn’t use coir for white pine seeds. Could be too wet if we get a wet winter. I just use a good quality commercial seed raising mix. Just my preference.
Cheers
Kirky
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 25th, 2023, 8:52 am
by SuperBonSaiyan
Thought I'd share a little tip and some good news.
I was told to put the cones into a bag and place them in the sun. So into the greenhouse they went.
This morning I checked and I now have 12 more seeds.
I'm going to experiment to test germination methods. If you have any suggestions let me know but here are my thoughts (since I have 15 total).
3 have been soaking with the outer shell scraped (not sunk yet after 48hrs)
3 more I'm thinking to crack the shell like Neil suggested (I'm assuming just a light crack, not a crush)
3 more I'll leave unscratched, uncracked
That leaves 6 more to experiment with. Any suggestions welcome.
Might try different potting mixes if that's recommended?
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 25th, 2023, 1:59 pm
by treeman
SuperBonSaiyan wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 8:52 am
Thought I'd share a little tip and some good news.
I was told to put the cones into a bag and place them in the sun. So into the greenhouse they went.
This morning I checked and I now have 12 more seeds.
I'm going to experiment to test germination methods. If you have any suggestions let me know but here are my thoughts (since I have 15 total).
3 have been soaking with the outer shell scraped (not sunk yet after 48hrs)
3 more I'm thinking to crack the shell like Neil suggested (I'm assuming just a light crack, not a crush)
3 more I'll leave unscratched, uncracked
That leaves 6 more to experiment with. Any suggestions welcome.
Might try different potting mixes if that's recommended?
If they haven't sunk after 12 our they are no good. If you do have good ones you need to cold stratify them at <>4C for 3 months or so.
Do not crack or scratch the seeds. There is no need and you will probably damage them.
Cold stratify in barely damp vermiculite in a jar with a few of holes in the lid. You will need tremendous patience with white pine development. There is hardly a difference after 12 months. They start moving well after the 3rd year. Use 50 gravel in your germinating mix and preferably in terra cotta pots.
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 25th, 2023, 2:00 pm
by treeman
treeman wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 1:59 pm
SuperBonSaiyan wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 8:52 am
Thought I'd share a little tip and some good news.
I was told to put the cones into a bag and place them in the sun. So into the greenhouse they went.
This morning I checked and I now have 12 more seeds.
I'm going to experiment to test germination methods. If you have any suggestions let me know but here are my thoughts (since I have 15 total).
3 have been soaking with the outer shell scraped (not sunk yet after 48hrs)
3 more I'm thinking to crack the shell like Neil suggested (I'm assuming just a light crack, not a crush)
3 more I'll leave unscratched, uncracked
That leaves 6 more to experiment with. Any suggestions welcome.
Might try different potting mixes if that's recommended?
If they haven't sunk after 12 hours they are no good. If you do have good ones you need to cold stratify them at <>4C for 3 months or so.
Do not crack or scratch the seeds. There is no need and you will probably damage them.
Cold stratify in barely damp vermiculite in a jar with a few of holes in the lid. You will need tremendous patience with white pine development. There is hardly a difference after 12 months. They start moving well after the 3rd year. Use 50 gravel in your germinating mix and preferably in terra cotta pots.
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 26th, 2023, 6:26 pm
by SuperBonSaiyan
treeman wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 1:59 pm
If they haven't sunk after 12 our they are no good.
None of them sank... Disappointing but oh well, I'll keep on the lookout for white pines on their own roots.
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: April 27th, 2023, 6:46 pm
by PeachSlices
SuperBonSaiyan wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 6:26 pm
treeman wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 1:59 pm
If they haven't sunk after 12 our they are no good.
None of them sank... Disappointing but oh well, I'll keep on the lookout for white pines on their own roots.
you and me both. Keep on looking you'll find something.
Simon
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: May 4th, 2023, 9:16 pm
by SuperBonSaiyan
My previous batch of 15 seeds had one seed sink after soaking.
Hopefully this batch has better luck.
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: May 4th, 2023, 10:03 pm
by KIRKY
Sink or not sink plants the all you never know.
Cheers
Kirky
Re: White pine varieties suitable for bonsai
Posted: May 5th, 2023, 9:32 am
by SuperBonSaiyan
KIRKY wrote: ↑May 4th, 2023, 10:03 pm
Sink or not sink plants the all you never know.
Cheers
Kirky
Yeah definitely. Doesn't take much more space or effort to cold stratify 1 seed vs 50 seeds so I won't let any go to waste.