stump of an unknown species

[ketutg]

i cant get over the fact you had to fit that plus more in your falcon along with the family!
ahhhhh the crazy things we do for bonsai

[Bretts]

That sounds fun. How many stock trees can you fit in a mini

Nice Find Jamie it has been a Loooonng time since I got a free tree from a nursery. Although I usually head straight to the bargain area to see what the nurseries are tring to get rid of.

[Jamie]

to right there ketug

and i think i could of fitted a few starters between the booster and baby seats in the back and a couple more advanced in between shay's (my wife) feet in the front if i had the money i would of to, or if they gave me more lol.


on a more serious note about the tree. i am seriously lost as to where to start i was looking at it this afternoon while watering it and think sheesh, where and what do i cut first. if anyone, and i mean anyone has some info please spill. this means you skippy!

my biggest question is can i cut the stumps that i am not gonna be using in the design right down to nothing and carve them out etc with out a drama??
and will this respond much like and elm where it will produce a mass of new shoots around the cut sites to choose a new leader/s from??

like i said i have ideas but would love to see or read other peoples

regards jamie

[Bretts]

Here are a couple of options that I would consider chopping it back at. Don't know the species but from the look of it and replies it should have no issue back budding.
I think conifers and some birch are the only trees that people are persistent enough to use for bonsai even though they can be difficult to back bud on old wood.

murraya.jpg

[Jamie]

brett, i take it from the pic that you would chop back to the red line and create a canopy to the purple??? i get that in the right side of the tree but what are you thinking with the left??? i see your purple line there but cant figure it out???

could you put a bit of esplanation in please??? thanks mate.



regards jamie

[Jamie]

well after saying stuff it and using microsoft paint i have done a really rough and i mean rough virt of something i see. obviously not showing everything but something close in design aspects. if i had my laptop up and running and being able to use the editor i am used to it will be a lot better. but untill then it will have to do. so here it is i am looking at using a lot of deadwood and carving as features in it aswell but i cant do that with the normal paint program on microsoft.

jamie

[Bretts]

Thats two options of where I would cut the trunks Red one option Blue the other option. I think both would be workable. You could even go much lower considering that the trunks would have to be re-grown with taper. The blue option on the left trunk is about the tallest I think workable and it has an existing new leader. Depends how long you want to spend on it and what you are after.
You can almost consider the whole base in the 6:1 ratio but your eyes will still see the size of the trunks so that also needs to be taken into consideration. The red line is less than 1:1 when you take the clump width as the indicator. yet a single trunk is just under 6:1.

I was leaning to the red line but now I consider this more with the ratios applied to it I think would go for the taller option of the blue line. Look for leaders that may head in the right direction otherwise cut back hoping one pops out in the right spot. Using the leader on the far left trunk I would look at a leader heading to the left still on the second trunk but less than the first. and the others would flow towards the right.

But making the wrong decision an a tree like this can cost you years so consider carefully. I would do the blue option as I think that is pretty safe and you can always go lower if you see it different later. Not sure when is the best time to chop these? I know Peter states Late summer for many species and thinks that is valuable advice but I may have trouble waiting until then if I was keen.

[Jamie]

i pretty much threw ratio's out the window with my ideas. i didnt think much of the right trunk as it wasnt going with the rest of the clump as i gues you could call it. i would use that as a deadwood feature though, allong with a couple of the trunks out the back that you cant see in the pics. i started figureing out where you was gonig with your lines just before you posted that. any ways.

let me all know what you think of my idea


regards jamie

[Bretts]

That size is another possibilty although I try not to ignore the larger size options these days they can be very intresting. Yet articles like this remind me that both options are viable.
EDIT; Missed a link http://sashi-no-eda.blogspot.com/2009/1 ... pdate.html
I would be keen on keeping all the trunks. I tend to like the busyness of the trunks in a clump and would think hard before removing one.

[Jamie]

yeah mate thats the thing. i am finding it difficult to decide on removal or not, i have another option in my head about this with keeeping more trunk size on it yet i keep heading back to the smaller version. i even think bout it at work when i am doing the tedious repetetive stuff

and i dont know if i said in my early post but waiting is gonna be tough for me, i want to get into this one so bad. but right now i am feeding the hell out of it getting it ready for the chops. whether i go big or small. the thing is i would still be using the trunks not in the design above as a dead wood feature. keeping some height there.

and my other thought is taper. due to the lack of it i am gonna have to do some major chops to get some taper in the trunks to match the base. so its a hard call.

[MelaQuin]

I don't feel a murraya with its compound leaves works well as a mini and considering its rampant growth habits I think it would be an awesome task trying to keep a mini under control. Due to the quantity of trunks that appear fairly well disposed to a multi-trunk bonsai I would not be removing many. It is hard from a static photo but I would remove those trunks that were complicating or cluttering the design as well as removing thickness at the top of the tree.

Murraya's can be cut to buggery [and I wish ALL those along the dog walking footpaths of my suburb would be!!!] and after a licking-wounds period [all too brief] will shoot everywhere so cutting back hard is definitely the way to go. I do think as much height as artistically possible would make this a very imposing tree. Carving a Murraya doesn't sit well with me. I can see using the Dremel to make a stump or cut off branch more naturalistic but doing actual carving... Jamie get a juniper or a pine or an olive and go to town on a tree that is seen in nature with a lot of deadwood if you want to go to carving heaven. No matter how good carving is if it doesn't suit the tree you can ruin a good subject.

I would be removing unnecessary trunks but delete them from the design as the remaining trunks tell too good a story on their own for the viewer to be distracted by carved jins. Get cracking in the upper layers and remove thick trunks/branches to get your balance - that's where your main cutting will be. I'd be cutting branches flat across and waiting until nature started throwing out leaders and branchlets and then choosing those going in the right directions and reducing and tapering the stumps accordingly.

My god but I'm glad you are young to be able to manage this tree. But fantastic to see such high quality stock going to such a good home where it will get a great future.

Looking at my tarted up photo again I would be aiming between the yellow and the blue line for the top foliage limit. I think the yellow is a bit too high but that depends on development over the next couple of years. But its the base area where the editing has strengthened the visual lines of this tree and all those damn branches are going in the right direction. Wonderful. Murphy must have been looking the other way when this developed.

murraya.JPG

[Jamie]

i have been thinking a bit about this one and maybe i was a bit rash taking the left hand trunk out, i have done a quick rough virt with paint once again, and i am liking this option alot more than my original idea. it creates more of a use for the trunks but i still think it will need quite drastic chop downs to induce taper. which is something i will be looking for

let me know what you think of the virts any way guys.


jamie

[Jamie]

ok, i couldnt resist. i had to see what i was dealing with. the murraya slipped out of its pot real easy. lots and lots of fine feeders. happy there. bit of a tease around. big heavy and i mean heavy roots under the trunk, some up to 50mm thick. so no matter what the is gonna need a deeper pot its whole life. its like a solid fused mess under soil level. thank god the top looks like a plate with the nebari fused quite nicely.
as it was just a tease out leaving most of the rootball intact i decided i needed to see what was i dealing with on top. so i have taken some of the top sections off. allowing for die back if any because i can always cut back at a lter date when new leaders are chosen

this is what i have to work with.

oh i might have found another front possibility but i really like the one i have been working with so far

regards jamie

[dayne]

hi where is that nursery and do you have a name of it im on the sunshine coast would do a drive for some junipers

[Jamie]

the one o got this from wasnt a bonsai nursery and they didnt have many juni there. and they were all young, i would go to bonsai northside nursery in morayfield. tess has some awesome juni