AusBonsai

Elmar wrote:

MoGanic wrote:
Hmm... a thought, if I may... if the foliage relies on the roots to keep the water flowing up as it evaporates, then wouldn't it follow that the roots need to be in place prior to the foliage being able to grow and ramify?
...
Mo

I thought that if we trim the branches, the leaves that grow back should be more in number BUT the overall surface area of the leaves then are the same as those that were originally cut of for the ramification to occur...

Not sure we're on the same page mate, I'm talking about the roots needing to be there before the foliage can grow. As an example, if you take a cutting - the foliage that's on the cutting helps to provide carbohydrates to create roots - it's only after the roots are there that the foliage starts growing again. Not really anything to do with surface area of the leaves.

Cheers mate,

Mo

MoGanic wrote:
Not sure we're on the same page mate, I'm talking about the roots needing to be there before the foliage can grow. As an example, if you take a cutting - the foliage that's on the cutting helps to provide carbohydrates to create roots - it's only after the roots are there that the foliage starts growing again. Not really anything to do with surface area of the leaves.

Cheers mate,

Mo

Sorry Mo, took off on a tangent talking about trimming branches - I'm with you now.


Cheers
Elmar

Elmar wrote:

MoGanic wrote:
Not sure we're on the same page mate, I'm talking about the roots needing to be there before the foliage can grow. As an example, if you take a cutting - the foliage that's on the cutting helps to provide carbohydrates to create roots - it's only after the roots are there that the foliage starts growing again. Not really anything to do with surface area of the leaves.

Cheers mate,

Mo

Sorry Mo, took off on a tangent talking about trimming branches - I'm with you now.


Cheers
Elmar

All good buddy! No need to apologise

Cheers,
Mo


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MoGanic wrote:
Auxins control top growth too but without correct pruning you get long leggy growth regardless of the auxin's presence.

Was thinking about this ...... As I understand it, the production of auxins in top growth typically in the apical buds is exactly what retards side budding. This done as a mechanism to ensure that a tree grows out far in search of light. That means I'm not so sure about the "regardless" up above...

Cheers,

Andrew

This is a great discussion with plenty of contributions but I can't help but thing the subject needs a title change?????????

Will chime in when I have something knowledgeable to add but will just sit back for now.

Squizz

By pruning roots or branches, you are manipulating hormones in the plant. Eg; the reason we see all those Japanese guides for pruning Black pines as having strong, medium and weak areas is because terminal buds always suppress the buds below them. It has to be that way or a tree would not be able to grow upright. By removing a terminal bud we also remove the inhibiting hormone produced by it and the next bud (or buds) down takes over. Same with roots.

Andrew Legg wrote:

MoGanic wrote:
Auxins control top growth too but without correct pruning you get long leggy growth regardless of the auxin's presence.

Was thinking about this ...... As I understand it, the production of auxins in top growth typically in the apical buds is exactly what retards side budding. This done as a mechanism to ensure that a tree grows out far in search of light. That means I'm not so sure about the "regardless" up above...

Cheers,

Andrew

Completely agree mate, auxin and cytokinin together maintain apical dominance in most plants. These are in the growing tips of shoots, so when we chop em we get ramification. But, if we don't prune, we get long leggy growth BECAUSE of the Auxin (not regardless of the auxin) lol.

This is why I understood root trimming to be the main contributor to root ramification too. In the same manner as top growth, the auxin is produced in the root tips and as it moves back it causes cell elongation. The other part to this is the cytokinin which I believe causes cell division and is located in the meristem just under the root cap.

So my question then becomes, what happens when we chop off the root tip? That particular root now needs to create a new root tip or revert to a root tip further back - but can a root grow a new root tip? YES! Because roots have a store of stem cells which can be used to regenerate the tip in the case it is chopped off. Hence, trimming seems the logical way to increase ramification.

Thoughts Andrew?

Cheers,
Mo

squizzy wrote:This is a great discussion with plenty of contributions but I can't help but thing the subject needs a title change?????????

Will chime in when I have something knowledgeable to add but will just sit back for now.

Squizz

How about Demystified Roots Squiz?

I just found the motherload!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... rt=classic

Now I just have to read it and make sense of it!

Andrew Legg wrote:I just found the motherload!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... rt=classic

Now I just have to read it and make sense of it!

That is an excellent read and also the first info I read while researching this topic - though I'll admit I haven't read it to the end.

Mo


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Well, if it makes you feel any better I have not even started it!

Andrew Legg wrote:Well, if it makes you feel any better I have not even started it!

Haha it's a beast of a page mate no one can blame you!

(And yes, that did make me feel a little better haha)

Cheers,
Mo


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