AusBonsai

Intersting topic. Can you elaborate on the misting systems?? I have a heap of maples which I have been told by many you cant grow in Adelaide. I have kept them under 50% white shadecloth and they have been fine, however they have had longer internodes than when in full sun.

I would love to know more about the misting systems.

Cheers,

Luke

Hi Guys , each to his own as different area's have different needs . Shade cloth is available in 30 % , its used for security fences and building sites as a screen . It has a button hole type seam that is great for thread stainless steel cable through and 2 pieces could easily be used and sewn together using the same principal i have used here to secure them into a 3.6 wide cover or even larger , it is knitted not woven therefore its stronger and longer lasting and can withstand gale force winds and hail .Easily tensioned using turnbuckles at each end or side .This has been in place for just over 4 years and could do with a pressure wash . Its only available in 1.8m wide material and numerous colours . As for my so called bonsai they all reside all summer under Coolaroo shade sales 95% uv blockout and there is no effect to the growth of the tree's , none that i can see anyway , you can still get sun burnt under a shade sale . Mind you the radiant heat here can hit close to 50 degree's on a 38 degree day . I have grown all my "Trident galore" topic , tridents , crab apples and Hornbeams under the fence mesh every year . It works well here .

Cheers Alpineart

Hey guy's, I can't believe how many of you grow under shade cloth down south I can't see much of an advantage to this
When I was in Japan Bonsai were grown in full sun all year round (Mame excluded) and they have some extreme temperature variants in the southern parts -5 to over 40+ each year, much the same as you guy's. This is said to improve even growth on tree's and overall health.

If your tree's are fully sun hardened they wont get sunburn or require any shade, just extra water on those extra hot days.

But each to there own.

G'day Billa

Like many others I advocate lots of sun for Bonsai, and like Shannon mine live in full sun here in Brissy. I do have a coupleof benches in half day sun. It does depend on you own conditions, and I know Melbourne can still get very hot, and unlike us is a more dry heat where the wind can do damage.

VelvetSicklid wrote:Is there such thing as shade cloth in the 10-20%??? Im yet to enclose my bench to promote a micro environment for my figs but i dont wanna rob other sp. of trees of too much sunlight

Vs, I don't know why you would want to give your Figs less sun than anything else. They love the sun and it helps keep the leaves smaller naturally.

Sun, sun and more sun baby

Tony

Shannon wrote:Hey guy's, I can't believe how many of you grow under shade cloth down south I can't see much of an advantage to this
When I was in Japan Bonsai were grown in full sun all year round (Mame excluded) and they have some extreme temperature variants in the southern parts -5 to over 40+ each year, much the same as you guy's. This is said to improve even growth on tree's and overall health.

If your tree's are fully sun hardened they wont get sunburn or require any shade, just extra water on those extra hot days.

But each to there own.

Remember mate, there's sun, and there's sun. When I lived in the UK I could walk around on the hottest day with my top off all day and not burning. I came home to Cape Town, and went out to wash my car one morning at 9am. 20 minutes later I came in and that night I looked like a lobster! I think we need to look at the difference between "sun", and the different components of sun that differ geographically. I may be wrong, but if it is actual UV that whacks a tree, then down south where the Ozone is thinner, trees will take more of a pounding. Here we talk about African Sun and opposed to European sun.

Cheers,

Andrew

Don't forget watering needs. Talking to the apprentice at a Japanese Bonsai Nursery yesterday, he said he watered three times a day. 4 if it is particularly hot. This and their free draining mix would allow growing in full sun. If you can only water once a day, a slower draining mix and/or shade cloth may be in order. I use 30% shade cloth during the summer on the smaller trees to slow drying.

AG

Tony Bebb wrote:

VelvetSicklid wrote:Is there such thing as shade cloth in the 10-20%??? Im yet to enclose my bench to promote a micro environment for my figs but i dont wanna rob other sp. of trees of too much sunlight

Vs, I don't know why you would want to give your Figs less sun than anything else. They love the sun and it helps keep the leaves smaller naturally.

Sun, sun and more sun baby

Tony

Gday Tony,

Its not that i wanna give my figs less sun, its just we dont have the humidity like you guys up north, thats what i want the shade cloth for.

Thruout the day up until about 2-3 pm then dappled shade then close it up for the night so the heat and humidity stay up over night. If that makes sense

Andrew: I have lived and grown Bonsai in South East Queensland Australia for over 20 years, where we have one of the highest the skin cancer rates in the world, my tree's are in full sun all day every day if UV was damaging my tree's like you suggest I better start looking for Melanoma under the leaves.

Makes sense VS

Shannon what works for us, works for us. Different environments need different techniques, conditions and soil mixes.

It is interesting to see what happens differently around the country and the world, but the best advise comes from your neighbours or those in similar conditions . As Albert pointed out from Japan, watering 3 maybe 4 times there is required because of the open nature of the mix with little or no organic matter. My mix can handle only one watering a day in full sun due to the presence of organic material, also because they have to because we all work and can only water once or twice a day at most.

Tony

That's why I got a watering system. It does the afternoon watering for me in summer.

I've found shade cloth just makes the trees get. Leggier and leggier. My little fellas go on trays with water.

My azaleas get shade from after two pm but full sun from sunrise. But don't et a watering system so for them Personally I find windy conditions tougher to deal with.

Personally ... last 2 years most trees (species dependent) no shade cloth - full sun from 10-5 in mid-summer (disclaimer ... last two years have been a lot wetter and cooler than the previous ~10). I've previously tried full shade cloth (at a different location) all day and was getting long internodes and increased disease/pest problems. Also note depending on your application of shade cloth you may also be restricting air flow which was another contributing factor to pest/disease.

I would also add that switching trees going from shade to full sun should be done from bud burst, and not in the midst of summer (species dependent) taking a couple of growing seasons to fully climatise. (from experience)

Something else that hasn't been suggested is gravel trays (like Pups) to keep the localised humidity up. Now that I've got a more free draining mix, I'm gonna give this a go this year, unless we have another wet one still in full sun.

Alternatively, I understand at the temporary NBPCA they have steel mesh roof (Grant or Leigh please correct me or elaborate), or in Japan some collections have slatted wood overhead. The idea of these methods is that as the sun moves the trees get full sun, then a break of shade, sun, shade and so on, but allow maximum air flow.

So depends on a lot of variables; species, soil/potting medium, aspect, location, to name a few, but hope this helps Billa

Cheers,
Ryan

Sorry guys for such a late reply. …I have had more hospital visits than I would like these past few weeks.…so please excuse me.


Thank you all for your thoughts. I see there is always more than meets they with Bonsai & trying to maintain the sun light is a massive task in itself.

I will try and invent a budget way to turn my shade cloth into a temporary ‘’thing’’ that can be retracted at will.

Peace and love,

Billa 

VelvetSicklid wrote:Is there such thing as shade cloth in the 10-20%??? Im yet to enclose my bench to promote a micro environment for my figs but i dont wanna rob other sp. of trees of too much sunlight

Mr Velvet you sick little kid ( lol sorry - i love your profile name )

Funny enough I work in the Window Furnishings industry and can tell you about fabrics.

There are HEAPS of different fabrics which all revolve around controlling light. They all have very different elements (even like anti-bacterial, Fire Retardant, zero ultra violet transmittance etc.) a MASSIVE fuss is made about the fabric capabilities...but openness can range from 0% to 12% and all in between and even higher if you want to pay big $$. I am happy to give you a few meters of some if you like.

Before my shade cloth I actually had a Metallized blind up that had a 5% Openness Factor. I took it down because I could not drill the brackets into the top of the balcony fence (it’s a rental) to hold it securely.

Just let me know if you want some fabric…

Tony Bebb wrote:G'day Billa

Like many others I advocate lots of sun for Bonsai, and like Shannon mine live in full sun here in Brissy. I do have a coupleof benches in half day sun. It does depend on you own conditions, and I know Melbourne can still get very hot, and unlike us is a more dry heat where the wind can do damage.

VelvetSicklid wrote:Is there such thing as shade cloth in the 10-20%??? Im yet to enclose my bench to promote a micro environment for my figs but i dont wanna rob other sp. of trees of too much sunlight

Vs, I don't know why you would want to give your Figs less sun than anything else. They love the sun and it helps keep the leaves smaller naturally.

Sun, sun and more sun baby

Tony

Thank you Mr Tony,

Always nice to hear from you

I think I need to re asses my whole balcony/light situation...I will try and maximize the sun light, minimize the wind, maximize space and minimize wife complaints lol

Hey Billa,

There are HEAPS of different fabrics which all revolve around controlling light. They all have very different elements (even like anti-bacterial, Fire Retardant, zero ultra violet transmittance etc.) a MASSIVE fuss is made about the fabric capabilities...but openness can range from 0% to 12% and all in between and even higher if you want to pay big $$

As an industry insider can you tell us how 'openness factor' equates to 'shade'. Does 5% openness equate to 95% shade?. as indicated above we are looking for fabric that has less shade for the health of the trees.
Hope the hospital visits are not terminal?