Feeding, Substrate and Watering Methods of Walter Pall

[NBPCA]

Hey Craig
If you have been using diatomite for 12 years surely that would make you one of the first in Australia. How did you find the stuff? I remember finding this stuff on the internet 4 years ago asking one of the international guys if it would work for bonsai which got a definite sure seems like it. It used to be sold (exported from Australia by miadenwell) as RoK2 or something In America, I can never find the website anymore. I can never remember how I found the stuff but It may have been from the Rok2 testimony from bonsai growers. I know Ken was looking into the stuff about the same time and was lucky enough to have easy access to the stuff.
I started using sponglite instead from bunnings thinking it was the same thing.
I have skimmed over Grants results and not sure I agree with the results for spongelite. This stuff has given me nothing but excellent results in a mix and I inadvertently used it 100% on a trident group that was effected by fungus early this spring but has almost fully recovered compared to the two others and is powering on even though it practically drys out in between the two watering's a day that should be three. In full sun.

Hi Grant
As you know I am no expert but recently my studies and thoughts on media just does not accommodate that a mix only works in a certain area. We have people growing trees in everything from fine silt mud to 100% LARGE grade Akadama and I can find no correlation to success in wich climate they are in. How many times have I been told akadama will be no good in our climate because it is much hotter than Japan. What I believe the deciding factor on whether a medium will work for you is habit.
As Walter states if you use the mix he suggests then you must have the habit of heavy fert and heavy watering. But as Walter states he adds peat moss to keep the substrate moist for longer. If you did not want to water as often as several times a day In our drier climate then it is simply a matter of adding more peat moss (rough peat not the fine peat moss that is the only thing that seems available in Australia) or spag moss if that is not avialable.
I have to wonder in your experiments when the osmocote and liquid fert went better than liquid fert alone whether a stronger fertilising regime as Walter suggests would have changed the results.
Again maybe some do not want to use that much fert and some like Pol do not want to or able to water that much, which makes me think that horticultural habits are more important than climate when it comes to substrates.

Hi Brett,

I think the inorganic mix certainly needs a higher level of natural ferts; no problem.

Grant

[Grant Bowie]

Hi Grant
I have to wonder in your experiments when the osmocote and liquid fert went better than liquid fert alone whether a stronger fertilising regime as Walter suggests would have changed the results.
Again maybe some do not want to use that much fert and some like Pol do not want to or able to water that much, which makes me think that horticultural habits are more important than climate when it comes to substrates.

Hi Brett,

An aditional response to part of your quote.

Thats why it is a test or trial. To sort out what works for whom and where and using what levels of fert etc. Also comparing the visible differences between different rates of fert to prove the point.

Grant.

[Bretts]

For sure Grant. There is only so much you can test and I think we agreed in the past, the great work you have done recently will most probably give us many theories that may be worth following further. As in concentrating some test on certain mediums at greater numbers with different variables. I think you know what I mean.
But I was also thinking about an earlier comment of yours in this thread when I asked who actually tried fertilising as much as Walter recommends.

Re Walters ideas on potting media.
If you use osmocote or similar in your potting media and fertilise as per normal with liquid as well; then for at least the first season you are already using 2.5 or 3 times the standard fertilizing regime. I have been doing this for 20 years plus with good results. (10 to 14% nitrogen in the liquid and 16 or 18% nitrogen in the Osmocote equals about 30% nitrogen in the fertilizer).

I figure this is much the same amount as the Liqued feed and osmocote in the trials which hinted they may like even more fert. I look forward to any trial that pushes the fertiliser concentration with certian substrates and various species. I might experiment with this a little one day but am experimented out this season
I think it is given that there will be a point of too much of a good thing and I reckon this will vary from species to species and maybe even climate to climate. From the look of Walter's trees the concentration he uses sure works for him.
Walter has stated that it works for all species but I wonder how much experience there is on using that much fert in all climates in particular our hot Summers?

How about it Walter have you seen this substrate/fertiliser/watering regime you suggest used in climates that get egg cooking Summers of 113 deg F and it is still Ok for all species including Hornbeams?

[Walter Pall]

How about it Walter have you seen this substrate/fertiliser/watering regime you suggest used in climates that get egg cooking Summers of 113 deg F and it is still Ok for all species including Hornbeams?

Well I use it for ALL trees including eg azaleas. My azaleas look VERY good even when I water them with water that has the highest possible amount of calcium. This is radically against any book-wisdom. But everybody is invited to come and see for themselves. I use it for several hundred hornbeams with best results. I use it for trees which cost much more than 10,000 euro.
I know that this method is used around the globe in all climates. I know that folks use it in southern California and Florida. There they have to water several times per day often.

I believe that one has to INCREASE the amout of feeding considerably the more often one waters. With well draining substrate most of the feed is washed out soon. So if you water several times per day you must feed EVERY day I believe. I must admit that I don't have personal direct experience ijn very hot and dry climate though.

[Bretts]

Thanks for the clarification Walter and the good will of spreading all this information to us all. Our climate here often gets compared with California and from what I remember comparing the climates in the past they are very similar but I think we do get a little hpotter here being inland as well.
I structured my bonsai pot mixes as you suggest this season but I am still not game to fertilise as much as you say "yet". On most of my trees especially the sun hardy ones I have stepped up the concentration of the fertiliser(still not as much as you, but getting closer) but have been giving the ones that get damaged by the hot sun a little less(closer to normal application). Some species gets as much fertiliser as possible.
I had asked of you about hornbeams before so sorry for the repetition but I am now curious whether trees growing in a hotter climate than they like(I am stubborn ) will also take this regime as well as any other.
I am watching the colour of my trees very closely and taking things slowly so I am sure I will get the hang of this well draining substrate fertilising in our hot climate soon enough.
I would love to make the trip over to see you garden one day but for now the pictures are proof enough of your advice
Maybe I can sneak an Oriental Hornbeam back in my suitcase
Ps thanks for the quick reply in email about that I think you are correct that we can not import Oriental hornbeam from your area. But the seeds are definatly OK. So I might have to make do with my seedlings

[craigw60]

Hi Walter, I am curious about the seasonality of your fertilizing regime. Obviously the feeding slows during the winter months but do you feed so heavily spring, summer and autumn ?
With thanks from Craig

[Matt Jermy]

How about it Walter have you seen this substrate/fertiliser/watering regime you suggest used in climates that get egg cooking Summers of 113 deg F and it is still Ok for all species including Hornbeams?

Well I use it for ALL trees including eg azaleas. My azaleas look VERY good even when I water them with water that has the highest possible amount of calcium. This is radically against any book-wisdom. But everybody is invited to come and see for themselves. I use it for several hundred hornbeams with best results. I use it for trees which cost much more than 10,000 euro.
I know that this method is used around the globe in all climates. I know that folks use it in southern California and Florida. There they have to water several times per day often.

I believe that one has to INCREASE the amout of feeding considerably the more often one waters. With well draining substrate most of the feed is washed out soon. So if you water several times per day you must feed EVERY day I believe. I must admit that I don't have personal direct experience ijn very hot and dry climate though.

This is why i love the worm-juice!! u can apply it as often as u water, so u can water and fertilise heavily//regularly (as long as u have good drainage..), and never 'burn' the plants.The nutrients are readily available for immediate uptake by the tree, thanks to worm enzyme.. - worm-juice is the bomb!!
Matt.

[Matt Jermy]

How about it Walter have you seen this substrate/fertiliser/watering regime you suggest used in climates that get egg cooking Summers of 113 deg F and it is still Ok for all species including Hornbeams?

Well I use it for ALL trees including eg azaleas. My azaleas look VERY good even when I water them with water that has the highest possible amount of calcium. This is radically against any book-wisdom. But everybody is invited to come and see for themselves. I use it for several hundred hornbeams with best results. I use it for trees which cost much more than 10,000 euro.
I know that this method is used around the globe in all climates. I know that folks use it in southern California and Florida. There they have to water several times per day often.

I believe that one has to INCREASE the amout of feeding considerably the more often one waters. With well draining substrate most of the feed is washed out soon. So if you water several times per day you must feed EVERY day I believe. I must admit that I don't have personal direct experience ijn very hot and dry climate though.

This why I love 'worm-juice' sooo much!! You can water and fertilise regularly/as much as u want , (as long as you have good drainage), with no risk of 'burn' to the roots. The nutrients are readily available for the tree, thanks to worm enzyme, and are being replenished regularly.
Matt.

[Walter Pall]

Hi Walter, I am curious about the seasonality of your fertilizing regime. Obviously the feeding slows during the winter months but do you feed so heavily spring, summer and autumn ?
With thanks from Craig

Craig,

organic fertilizer would be best always. It has disadvantages:

- it only works above certain temperatures. Bacteria, fungi and other critters have to transform organic fertilizer into feed which is usable for trees. These critters are only active when it is warm and moist. In my climate this is from beginning of May to middle of September.
- they smell and are unsightly. Bat guano almost does not smell but is very expensive. Bonsai is all abut esthetics. Sill, ugly and smelling feed cakes all over the trees are radically contrary to esthetics.

Therefore I use a mix of chemical and organic feed:

- from end of March to middle of October every ten days to two weeks I apply chemical fertilizer of various origins.It does not matter what you use as ong as it is fertilizer meant for normal plants. I use garden and agricultural stuff - never bonsai feed. It is made of gold.
- beginning of May I throw lots of chicken manure at every single tree.
- By end of August I throw chicken manure or rather bat guano te every single tree.
When I apply organic feed I don't feed chemically in addition for three weeks. After three weeks I just water with chemical feed all over everything including the organic feed on the surface. At this time one can start to remove the organic feed if it is unsightly.

I don't feed at all from middle October to end of March. During this time my garden is frozen. It looks like on the attached images.

[Mitchell]

Amazing shots Walter.
Thank you for contributing to the thread, your input is very much appreciated by all here.

[craigw60]

Thanks for that information Walter it is very interesting, I would not have thought to feed so heavily during the spring due to increased leaf size but will try on some trees and see what happens. I usually start to feed from early summer through to autumn. Because of our relatively mild winters the native trees and conifers still grow over that season so we can still continue to feed them.
I had to have a laugh at the bat manure, I am guessing it is collected from the caves where these animals congregate.
With thanks from Craig

[Walter Pall]

Thanks for that information Walter it is very interesting, I would not have thought to feed so heavily during the spring due to increased leaf size but will try on some trees and see what happens.

I don't get small leaf size by cutting back in feeding and watering. In the contary. I water and feed aggressively and then cut back drastically including leaf pruning with most deciduous trees. See here a wild European honeysuckle in June and then again in November. The fine ramification was reached with agreesive feeding and watering. Next spring it will have small foliage due to small buds now.

Last image the same tree as of spring 2004.

So I again do exactly the opposite of what we were taught with very good results.
Cutting back is June is done with a hedge shear in two minutes btw.

I use this method with ALL of my tree including the world famous ones.

See developmetn of tjhsi honeysuckle from scratch in six years: http://walter-pall.de/honeysucklewild_h ... index.html

[NeilW]

Thanks for sharing Walter, love that tree mate...Cheers

[Pup]

Here in Perth we have just had our hottest November on record, with average temps of 33 that is 8 above average, these are Celsius temp.
So the normal fertilising has been put on hold, as watering has been more important.
That means fertiliser put on in the morning is washed out at midday by watering . So we wait for cooler temps. Also the danger of salt burn from the salts in the fertilisers.

Just one of the many variants to hot dry climate's.

Cheers Pup

[NBPCA]

Here in Perth we have just had our hottest November on record, with average temps of 33 that is 8 above average, these are Celsius temp.
So the normal fertilising has been put on hold, as watering has been more important.
That means fertiliser put on in the morning is washed out at midday by watering . So we wait for cooler temps. Also the danger of salt burn from the salts in the fertilisers.

Just one of the many variants to hot dry climate's.

Cheers Pup

Hi Pup,

hope you and your bonsai survive the heat and dry.

We are having the oppposite over here. Rain day after day and cool weather. Forecast of rain for the next week as well.

Grant