What does "Short Lived" mean (a very newbie question)

[CommonCalluna]

Good Morning All,

I have a silly question to ask, but if you never ask you never learn.
Would someone be so kind as to explain to me what it means when a tree is short lived?

Is there just an expected life time for some trees and no matter what care or environment you keep the plant in it will die in 'x' amount of years?

I'm new to bonsai but not to gardening, and something that's confusing me in particular is the reputation of Rosemary as being short lived.
I grow rosemary as a perrenial herb in my garden and I've never had one just up and die on me. Any time I've killed a rosemary in particular it has been 100% due to poor care or bad husbandry on my part. My relatives have rosemary hedges that have been growing on their property for decades. And even in bonsai examples you can find ancient looking rosemary bonsai or yamadori that have been kept for decades.

I've definitely caught the bonsai itch, and I'm loving collecting little tree's and making plans for them into the future, I just don't understand exactly what a tree/plant being "Short lived" means. Could I spend 10 years finally getting a little tree approaching something I'm proud of just for it to reach the end of its life as soon as it becomes a bonsai?

Thankyou for your patience with me,
CommonCalluna

[KIRKY]

Basically what you have said is true. Some trees no matter how well you look after them for no apparent reason will just die. I have never heard that rosemary is short lived. First for me. But things like Acacia even in the garden might only live 20-25 years and suddenly die that is classified as short lived. Unlike a redwood, oak etc… that can live for hundreds of years. So yes you can spend years on a tree only to have it curl up it’s toes.
Cheers
Kirky

[CommonCalluna]

Thankyou Kirky!

This is as educational as it is devastating. I guess I know now that if I get my hands on my dream acacia howitti that I need to use the quicker growth techniques rather than keeping it in a shallow pot and letting the years do the work.

I'll also look into longer lived weeper's but a paticular acacia howitti at this years BSV show had me fall in love at first sight!

[KIRKY]

I had my Howitti for over 25 years and it was still going strong, until next doors kids knocked it off it’s perch with a basketball soon after a repot. So don’t give up hope on them. Also depends on how old you are, for me in 25 years I will have fallen off my perch
Cheers
Kirky

[Rory]

I had my Howitti for over 25 years and it was still going strong, until next doors kids knocked it off it’s perch with a basketball soon after a repot. So don’t give up hope on them. Also depends on how old you are, for me in 25 years I will have fallen off my perch
Cheers
Kirky

Love your sense of humour Kirky. You'll always be young.

Yes I've often been told that some of my choices in natives are short lived. But.... short lived is a relative term. Also, in the wild, they may have different factors influencing a harder struggle for survival as opposed to having optimum conditions provided by good bonsai practises.
I adhere to the 'Grant Bowie' way of thinking, which is not to dwarf my bonsai, but to keep them in full health, and deal with the stronger growth, as opposed to always keeping them subdued, which can sometimes border on the sicker side and very slowly growing. Each to their own.

[CommonCalluna]

I had my Howitti for over 25 years and it was still going strong, until next doors kids knocked it off it’s perch with a basketball soon after a repot. So don’t give up hope on them. Also depends on how old you are, for me in 25 years I will have fallen off my perch
Cheers
Kirky

Alas, the impatience of youth still lives in me, I'm not too much older than your Howitti made it to, but still old enough to shake my fist at those darn kids with their basketball

Yes I've often been told that some of my choices in natives are short lived. But.... short lived is a relative term. Also, in the wild, they may have different factors influencing a harder struggle for survival as opposed to having optimum conditions provided by good bonsai practises.
I adhere to the 'Grant Bowie' way of thinking, which is not to dwarf my bonsai, but to keep them in full health, and deal with the stronger growth, as opposed to always keeping them subdued, which can sometimes border on the sicker side and very slowly growing. Each to their own.

This makes sense to me, horses are meant to live to 25, but my old boy made it to 32 before he passed. It's more of a benchmark than a prescription and care and environment always have their effects. Hopefully I can be a better care taker than the Aussie Bush!

Thankyou for your insight Rory. That approach definitely makes sense to me from my gardening background. I'm so new that I don't want to decide one way or another before I get the chance to learn from everyone who knows more than me.

[dansai]

Not all acacias are short lived. Mulga for instance, can live for 100's of years. And they live in very harsh areas. There are many factors affecting lifespan of trees. Acaias around here (Mid North Coast NSW - Sub=tropical coastal) generally grow very fast and die around 15-20 years old. Often full of borers and grubs. Some ornamental Grevilleas only last about 10 years, Grevilla robusta, which grow in Rainforest forest settings can be 100's.

Regular care, including root pruning, can invigorate a tree and give it youthful exuberance than can mean it lasts a lot longer. I know a respected grower that has never bothered with Natives because of a belief they are short lived. Yet the NBPCA has some very old specimens, as I'm sure plenty of growers have. I am also aware of someone who collects Kunzea that are believed to be up to, and occasionally older than 100!

[Grant Bowie]

Some people used to say that Banksia were short lived. That was code for I had one but killed it and don’t know why.

Sometimes you need to go against conventional thinking and do what your can to make your favourite species last longer, and record what you’ve done to help other people.

Grant

[Rory]

Some people used to say that Banksia were short lived. That was code for I had one but killed it and don’t know why.

[shibui]

From the dictionary of bonsai terms:

Short lived - n. most bonsai purchased by beginners.

In botanical terms some species are only expected to live for a few years then die. There are a few long lived acacia species that usually expect to reach 100 years but many more of them only live for around 10-20 years. Some of the Tassie conifers, on the other hand, appear to live for many hundreds of years given suitable conditions.

[BonsaiBobbie]

What happens to “most” bonsai when we die? Even before then?

I mean this seriously.

I am just starting out and am deriving pleasure from the horticultural side among everything. So I probably have a 100 plants at the early stages and very few that look like Bonsai.

I know most won’t make it for various reasons.

I am guessing others are similar.

If I died in 10 years my kids may take one plant each. The rest?

Ok. Even someone like Grant. What would happen to ALL his plants. Would they all find a new home?

So does it matter is if they are short lived, other than our own sadness in seeing it? (I don’t have a view)

Just like I am in the process of trying to get rid of some old family cutlery and crockery. They have been passed on and on, eventually to me. I’ll try and find a buyer. If not I’ll sell for scrap.

[Kevin]

Hello all,

I was recently reading through historic posts and came across the related thread, attached below. The question was asked by an experienced Bonsai grower and Nurseryman. I thought people may enjoy (as I do) reading philosophies from enthusiasts who no longer post.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3750

Kevin

[Rory]

Short lived - n. most bonsai purchased by beginners.

[shibui]

What happens to “most” bonsai when we die? Even before then?

Pretty sure there's a thread here somewhere dealing with this very subject.
Most experienced growers realise that if family members have little training or practice any bonsai bequeathed to those family members will have a high likelihood of death in the first year of the new owner taking charge.
Some have made arrangements for their trees to be auctioned off so the beneficiaries get cash rather than an asset of dubious longevity.
Some have arranged for clubs to pass on trees to members where at least they have some chance of surviving for a little longer.
Forward thinking realists probably arrange to reduce the collection while they still have some control and can still determine the fate of their beloved trees -always assuming you have the time to make such arrangements.

see some previous thoughts on the same subject:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3917&p=43466&hilit=pass#p43466

[Grant Bowie]

I have been selling off or gifting of my biggest trees and a large number of my large trees.
My will has been made with trees and pots etc to be distributed to my will , as I have obviously had to think about these things in recent years.
The NBPCA would get first pick of my trees and pots,

Cheers,

Grant