Future shohin Maples
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 49
- Joined: April 28th, 2009, 2:47 pm
- Favorite Species: Black Pines
- Bonsai Age: 35
- Bonsai Club: Cumberland / National
- Location: Sydney
Re: Future shohin Maples
Steven:
On the Trident Maples you need to cut back the roots harder on repotting. don't worry about fibrous roots just back to 10 mm or so.
On the Japanese maples leave a lot of fibrous root.
On the Trident Maples you need to cut back the roots harder on repotting. don't worry about fibrous roots just back to 10 mm or so.
On the Japanese maples leave a lot of fibrous root.
- melbrackstone
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: December 15th, 2015, 8:05 pm
- Favorite Species: the ones that live
- Bonsai Age: 28
- Bonsai Club: Redlands, BIMER, VNBC
- Location: Brisbane
- Has thanked: 1212 times
- Been thanked: 739 times
- Contact:
Re: Future shohin Maples
There must be something in this, when you look around the nature strips in my suburb, any tree that gets whipper-snipped regularly generally has a wounded base that gets thicker and woodier from the constant damage they sustain...Other suggestions to selectively increase trunk diameter include wounding where you want extra size. We have probably all experienced the frustration of getting inverse taper as a result of pruning and the resulting callus and scar tissue grows faster than surrounding trunk? I have seen recommendations that it is possible to increase trunk size at a given place by a. repeatedly stabbing the trunk ; b. making vertical cuts through the bark; c. lightly hammering the bark to bruise the cambium below. All these suggestions are aimed at producing scar tissue which, in theory, should increase the trunk thickness at that point. I have been trying this on a couple of maples aver the past few years but can't report outstanding success so far. Maybe someone else has had better results?
Last edited by melbrackstone on July 29th, 2016, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 49
- Joined: April 28th, 2009, 2:47 pm
- Favorite Species: Black Pines
- Bonsai Age: 35
- Bonsai Club: Cumberland / National
- Location: Sydney
Re: Future shohin Maples
I would not be hammering either Trident or Japanese maples or even slightly tapping them. Their bark is much too thin and you will just have to wait for the rollover to heal. Vertical cuts do work and certainly whipper snipping will ring bark the tree unless you are luck enough never to complete the ring. Steve is talking Maples here not pines or junipers where drilling, tapping and vertical cuts all work, abate slowly. Keeping your base flat and having the roots spread is certainly the fastest way to thicken trunk except for sacrifice branches (use in conjunction with each other). Like figs the Trident maples when young (under 15 years) can almost be bare rooted at repotting but Japanese Maples you must be much more careful leaving reasonable fibrous roots. I have had the reverse occur when you graft or layer . Japanese maples seem to air layer and graft much easier than the Trident maples
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 1413
- Joined: November 25th, 2008, 7:11 am
- Favorite Species: Pines
- Bonsai Age: 0
- Bonsai Club: BSV, Northwest
- Has thanked: 74 times
- Been thanked: 18 times
Re: Future shohin Maples
This is a cool thread and thought it worth a bump considering we are getting towards Autumn and seed collecting time!
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 7687
- Joined: August 22nd, 2009, 8:41 pm
- Favorite Species: trident maple
- Bonsai Age: 41
- Bonsai Club: Albury/Wodonga; BSV; Canberra; VNBC
- Location: Yackandandah
- Has thanked: 68 times
- Been thanked: 1430 times
- Contact:
Re: Future shohin Maples
Last year many of my Japanese maples did not produce seed but this year almost all the trees in the garden are loaded with seed so plenty available for anyone who wants to grow lots of maples.
Tridents also have a full load of seed but I think it would have to be a pretty bad year to stop them producing seed.
Tridents also have a full load of seed but I think it would have to be a pretty bad year to stop them producing seed.
http://shibuibonsai.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 9
- Joined: April 16th, 2015, 1:59 pm
- Bonsai Age: 0
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Future shohin Maples
Thanks so much for this extremely informative post. I've got about 100 Japanese maple seedlings that are 1 year old. Is it ok to start this process now (Early June)? Or should I wait until late winter? I'm planning on using old CDs. Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Steven
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3408
- Joined: November 7th, 2008, 11:21 am
- Favorite Species: [color=green]Casuarina[/color]
- Bonsai Age: 15
- Bonsai Club: AusBonsai & The School of Bonsai
- Location: Sydney
- Has thanked: 43 times
- Been thanked: 60 times
- Contact:
Re: Future shohin Maples
I started these ones in late June without issue Ben but I'm in Sydney. Best to ask someone local to you.
Regards,
Steven
Regards,
Steven
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 7687
- Joined: August 22nd, 2009, 8:41 pm
- Favorite Species: trident maple
- Bonsai Age: 41
- Bonsai Club: Albury/Wodonga; BSV; Canberra; VNBC
- Location: Yackandandah
- Has thanked: 68 times
- Been thanked: 1430 times
- Contact:
Re: Future shohin Maples
You can start work on your tridents now but obviously no growth will happen until spring.
http://shibuibonsai.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 9
- Joined: April 16th, 2015, 1:59 pm
- Bonsai Age: 0
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Future shohin Maples
Thanks for your replies, I think I'll leave it until the rest of my repotting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- MJL
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2840
- Joined: October 26th, 2014, 8:47 pm
- Favorite Species: Maples, Elms, Cedars and Pines
- Bonsai Age: 7
- Bonsai Club: Waverley Bonsai Group & Yarra Valley Bonsai Society
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 424 times
- Been thanked: 643 times
Re: Future shohin Maples
Just bumping this thread because the content herein is hugely informative from Steven and Shibui. Thanks both and thanks for Mel for alerting me from the other thread. )
Initially, I assumed that the new surface roots would be too clinical; perhaps they would form a straight 90 degrees from the trunk. Therefore, I wondered if it might help if the discs were slightly convex in some way but....no.... then I saw Shibui's stock and it looks like the roots above the disc spread beautifully and slightly curve into the soil. Cool.
Thanks again. This forum is a depth of information. It makes me smile (well, actually laugh at myself) and the musings that I often post as I think about this hobby. Clearly my knowledge remains at the very tip of the iceberg...
Cheers,
Mark
Initially, I assumed that the new surface roots would be too clinical; perhaps they would form a straight 90 degrees from the trunk. Therefore, I wondered if it might help if the discs were slightly convex in some way but....no.... then I saw Shibui's stock and it looks like the roots above the disc spread beautifully and slightly curve into the soil. Cool.
Thanks again. This forum is a depth of information. It makes me smile (well, actually laugh at myself) and the musings that I often post as I think about this hobby. Clearly my knowledge remains at the very tip of the iceberg...
Cheers,
Mark
Tending bonsai teaches me patience.
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 7687
- Joined: August 22nd, 2009, 8:41 pm
- Favorite Species: trident maple
- Bonsai Age: 41
- Bonsai Club: Albury/Wodonga; BSV; Canberra; VNBC
- Location: Yackandandah
- Has thanked: 68 times
- Been thanked: 1430 times
- Contact:
Re: Future shohin Maples
I know that Treeman has spoken out about this issue. He prefers roots to enter the ground at around 45 deg if I remember correctly.Initially, I assumed that the new surface roots would be too clinical; perhaps they would form a straight 90 degrees from the trunk. Therefore, I wondered if it might help if the discs were slightly convex in some way but....no.... then I saw Shibui's stock and it looks like the roots above the disc spread beautifully and slightly curve into the soil. Cool.
Initially the exactly horizontal 90 deg roots do look unnatural but as the tree grows those angle soften. The trunk and roots grow more on the top side where more nutrients take the quickest way up and down so I seem to end up with a good flared buttress after a few years of growing. At least Everyone is free to have their own ideas about how to achieve the desired outcomes. I try to only put forward possibilities and always interested to see any modifications or alternatives.
Have fun making new bonsai everyone.
http://shibuibonsai.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2
- Joined: September 17th, 2019, 1:14 am
- Favorite Species: Pine
- Bonsai Age: 2
- Bonsai Club: freelance
- Has thanked: 1 time
Re: Future shohin Maples
very keen to see the updates at this stageSteven wrote: ↑July 25th, 2016, 10:00 am I repotted these guy's on the weekend and was pleased to find that last years efforts had paid off with the trunks and bases progressing well on most of them.
I invested in them again by spreading the roots, planting on plastic discs and if there were sides with no roots, I did partial layers.
2016 July (1).JPG
2016 July (2).JPG
2016 July (3).JPG
2016 July (4).JPG
2016 July (5).JPG
2016 July (6).JPG
2016 July (7).JPG
2016 July (8).JPG
2016 July (9).JPG
2016 July (10).JPG
2016 July (11).JPG
2016 July (12).JPG
2016 July (13).JPG
2016 July (14).JPG
2016 July (15).JPG
2016 July (16).JPG
2016 July (17).JPG
2016 July (18).JPG
2016 July (19).JPG
2016 July (20).JPG
2016 July (21).JPG
2016 July (22).JPG
2016 July (23).JPG
2016 July (24).JPG
Hopefully the ones cut back will back-shoot in the right places so I can slowly start developing branches. If I don't get branches in the right spots I'll graft them. There are a couple in the bunch that are really showing good potential so I feel the effort if worth continuing
Regards,
Steven
- thoglette
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 491
- Joined: October 8th, 2009, 11:09 pm
- Favorite Species: Acer Palmatum
- Bonsai Age: 10
- Bonsai Club: The Bonsai Workshop
- Location: A cloud of disconnected thoughts
- Has thanked: 35 times
- Been thanked: 25 times
- Contact:
Re: Future shohin Maples
Bumping, but I've about a hundred odd trident seedlings (thanks to Birchman) and have planted them out in a variety of situations (from seedling trays to direct into large pots). if they survive this week (40+ in the day and bumping 30 at night) I'll do some updates
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 1386
- Joined: November 27th, 2008, 12:37 pm
- Favorite Species: Pine, Maple, and Juniper
- Bonsai Age: 8
- Bonsai Club: Canberra Bonsai Society
- Location: Canberra
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 13 times
- Contact:
Re: Future shohin Maples
I'll too.
I was hoping there would be some updates on these little guys too Steven.
This is a great thread, like the 'How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries' one.
I have done a few of these over the years, but I find it hard to keep on track with the progress. It is very easy to have them tread water for a few years. I think one of the biggest things for me is that they are 'just little seedlings' so get neglected, even though they are some of the most promising material on the bench.
I have Trident seedlings on the go again this year so will be aiming to get 100 or so into the fitness regime. I'll try and maintain enthusiasm.
Scott
I was hoping there would be some updates on these little guys too Steven.
This is a great thread, like the 'How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries' one.
I have done a few of these over the years, but I find it hard to keep on track with the progress. It is very easy to have them tread water for a few years. I think one of the biggest things for me is that they are 'just little seedlings' so get neglected, even though they are some of the most promising material on the bench.
I have Trident seedlings on the go again this year so will be aiming to get 100 or so into the fitness regime. I'll try and maintain enthusiasm.
Scott
- BirchMan
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 276
- Joined: June 17th, 2010, 11:36 pm
- Favorite Species: Shimpaku
- Bonsai Age: 12
- Bonsai Club: Bonsai Workshop WA
- Location: Perth
- Has thanked: 84 times
- Been thanked: 48 times
Re: Future shohin Maples
GDay CD, didn't see this back in Dec. Will have plenty more this year I'm sure, many donations to the club and individuals! Hope some of yours made it through this summer.thoglette wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 11:58 am Bumping, but I've about a hundred odd trident seedlings (thanks to Birchman) and have planted them out in a variety of situations (from seedling trays to direct into large pots). if they survive this week (40+ in the day and bumping 30 at night) I'll do some updates
Another vote for an update