AusBonsai

I don't think there is an 'ideal' time but you can chop your pine now. Just make sure there is still green parts on the parts left. They should grow strongly in spring after an autumn chop.

I would not do roots now. Spring will be the best time for that.

There is a strong rumor that we should not do roots and top of pines in the same season. I'm not totally convinced about that theory but might be best to be cautious just in case they are right and I'm not.

7 ft is a tall pine. Reducing to 1 ft will not leave a lot so I hope the lower branches are good.

beanwagon wrote: ↑May 7th, 2021, 12:49 pm I have a roughly 7ft black pine that i am happy with the thickness and want to finally start developing it. I was going to reduce it down to 1 foot. Is now the ideal time? Or should i wait till the end of winter

Bonus question. Should i wait to reduce the roots or do ut at the same time.

If it was my decision to make I’d be waiting for winter. Let the tree cash in on all the energy it is storing for the colder months now and then cut back before bud break in spring. It looks really healthy, I might consider stepping the reduction rather than all at once. I feel the resultant growth you might possibly get after a massive (6 ft) chop could be too coarse to be useful for bonsai. All the energy will be concentrated in one area after such a massive reduction. I wouldn’t be doing root work simultaneously... just seems like a lot of stress at once. In reality I’d be thinking about working the roots before looking at a foliage reduction... but that is my way. Roots and root development are the most important part of a successful bonsai in my book. Get that right first and the rest can be sorted after. Nice development on what looks like a super healthy tree, good luck with it.

I have few pines that are growing longer candles to the point it starting to look like long vines. This s an older photo but those long candles are much longer now.
At first i thought they were branching out but its not the case. Do i leave it as it is?

First we need to know what species this is as some species have different growth habit. The photo doesn't look like Japanese Black pine.

Generally all pines will make new buds wherever there are healthy needles. Needles generally live for around 3 years which means that you can allow your pines to grow without pruning for 2-3 years then chop back hard to the older needles and still get good buds.

There are probably 2 main ways to develop pines for bonsai:
Regular pruning when the tree is really small and skinny will definitely slow progress so it will take much longer to grow a thick trunk if you prune when they are really young therefore most growers let their pines grow free for 2-3 years then prune hard and repeat until satisfactory trunk is achieved.

Regular pruning will, however, give plenty of new shoots and start taper in the trunk and ramification. Some growers are happy to take this much longer road because they know the result will have fewer scars and will probably be more manageable.

shibui wrote: ↑July 27th, 2021, 6:59 pm First we need to know what species this is as some species have different growth habit. The photo doesn't look like Japanese Black pine.

i think its a Pinus patula. I grown these from seeds so i wasn't sure.

I see, guess i'll just leave it for few more years and come back to it later

Hi, all new user here first time post so still working this forum out. I have a handful of bonsais 3 of them Japanese black pines I live in Perth Western Australia and I’m finding out they’re few and far between and I’m looking to get in touch with anyone here who can supply black pine seeds and or seedlings? Or possibly point me in the right direction?

Love to hear from you! Cheers

Hi Luke,
JBP are also scarce on the East coast now as import of seed is banned, except with really strict treatment, due to some exotic diseases we don't want to get in Australia. Even commercial bonsai growers find it very hard to get seed in and live plants are out of the question.

It is possible to get a small percentage of cuttings to strike if you want to try for small numbers.

Hopefully someone in WA can help with a source of plants or seed for you.

Aren't there people growing new JBP from candle cuttings?

I have seen youtube videos about growing JBP from candle cuttings. Not sure if it is true?

You can successfully strike cuttings from candles. I haven’t done it but I have seen trees that were grown (here in Oz) using this technique. It works. I’ll probably look at doing this should I need more JBP rather than trying to source seed again… it’s too hard! Shibui does a similar thing with top growth on young seedlings also that I think works OK too.
I’m also thinking about planting out a couple of pines as garden trees with the (hopeful) side benefit of cones/seeds, but first I need a garden!

Cool thought this may be the case! Thanks for your responses!

Usually new shoots root faster than harder wood but I've tried candle cuttings many times and never had one root. It may be possible but I haven't been able to do it. Still trying slightly different techniques to see if I can crack that one. If anyone has had success please let us know the how and when.

I can get a small percentage of 1 year old 'hardwood' pine cuttings from 1 year old shoots to root.

Juvenile pine shoots root really easily. The easiest place to get juvenile growth is from seedlings but occasionally after hard pruning even older pines will produce some juvenile shoots. Those will also root well, despite the parent plant being a bit older.

I had a crack at propagating from candles this year and it went pretty well. My two in-development JBPs have branches I plan to remove in autumn, so I opportunistically experimented.

Candles were harvested in the first week of January. All were dipped in purple Clonex. I used a coir peat / perlite mix and kept them initially in a water tray (3 or so weeks plus hot days). Didn’t have any humidity cover / greenhouse etc.

5/5 candles from the younger, smaller pine (shohin) initially struck, 4 survived.
2/4 from the older pine (60cm) struck, 1 survived. These were longer candles.
Shorter candles (maybe less foliage to support?) had a better survival rate. The ones in smaller seedling pots all survived - the ones planted in shared 100mm pots had a reduced survival rate. The ones that initially seemed okay, then died, looked to be in mix that had become too boggy from being left in the water tray too long.

Probably beginners’ luck, but I’ll take it.

Thanks for sharing your trials. Pics of the process would be great as they will tell much more than just a few words but you probably did not expect much and did not take any? If you do more please take photos as you go and post a pictorial step by step for those of us who haven't yet cracked this.

Like many, I randomly try to strike cuttings off anything during pruning time. A few years ago, I put 3 black pine candles into tubes with normal potting mix. They were placed in the corner of a green house and were forgotten. During this period, I think they don't get much water but occasionally get a bit. To my surprised, 2 out of the 3 striked and had roots that came out of the bottom. Since then, I've tried many other times without success. I think the more you try, keeping them moist etc...the more likely they get rot and turn brown. Sometimes, they stay green but they fail to root.
As a note, some of these cuttings can stay green for an entire season and still not grow roots. My thought is that by keeping the substrate overly moist hinders root growth.