Page 8 of 8
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: February 23rd, 2022, 9:45 am
by Promethius
shibui wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2022, 6:20 am
Thanks for sharing your trials. Pics of the process would be great as they will tell much more than just a few words but you probably did not expect much and did not take any? If you do more please take photos as you go and post a pictorial step by step for those of us who haven't yet cracked this.
I will try to recall more specific information and have a better hunt through my iPhone pictures, then will start a new thread. Unfortunately, I didn't really expect anything, so was not particularly punctilious in my record keeping.
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: February 23rd, 2022, 11:56 am
by terryb
Rather than just tossing a couple shoots I thinned from the first whorl of two 1.5 year old JBP to get rid of bar branching in 2019, figured I'd try them as cuttings. Cuttings were taken just before the summer solstice, the bottom needles were stripped just like any other cutting, dipped in rooting gel and into 50:50 perlite:coir. The pot was placed into a plastic covered propagator I got from the big green shed, which kept the cutting moist so I didn't need to keep watering it all the time. Juvenile tissue is probably the key.
This was a trial and I didn't take any photos of the process, however, I did take photos when I potted up the cutting in September 2020 which may help convey what I did with my cutting.
JBP_cutting_9ix20.jpg
JBP_cutting_9ix20_1.jpg
The cutting is still growing and I will put some bends in it this year when I work the roots
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: March 13th, 2022, 9:33 pm
by LukeMan
Hey all, just putting feelers out there if anyone is selling black pine seeds at all?
Thanks!
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: March 14th, 2022, 5:49 pm
by Stevie_B
LukeMan wrote: ↑March 13th, 2022, 9:33 pm
Hey all, just putting feelers out there if anyone is selling black pine seeds at all?
Thanks!
I have been trying to find some myself up here in Ipswich. The guy I go to reckons that there’s a cockatoo species that have developed a fondness for black pine seeds. He said it with a straight face too.
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: March 14th, 2022, 8:16 pm
by shibui
All cockies love pine seeds. The black cockatoos down here are even bigger and hungrier than the sulphur crested cockies.
I have all the cones on my black pine bagged. Not only to keep off the birds but also saves any seed from the cones that open early.
For those that are interested cones are still not ripe.
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: April 2nd, 2022, 12:42 am
by badabing888
shibui wrote: ↑August 23rd, 2020, 5:57 pm
Sacrifice branches appear to be the best way to increase trunk thickness.
You still need to maintain the branches you want to keep so you have something to work with after the growing is done.
Select the branches you will use for the primary branches and apex (note the final apex may not be the current one. It might be one of the current side branches) Start to candle prune and pull needles on those branches. Select another branch or 2 for sacrifice branches. Let those ones grow unchecked as long as they want. You may need to prune off some side branches so they don't shade and compete with your good branches.
There is a tendency for the tree to put all the resources into the higgest growing point and sometimes lower branches weaken and die. If your good branches start to look sick prune the sacrifice branches back significantly to divert resources back to the parts you want until they grow healthy again.
Some pics of pine sacrifice branches:
IMGP6263.JPG
IMGP6271.JPG
IMGP6353.JPG
When are you cutting back all these sacrafice branches?
Ive got a few at this stage and i do it now in some cases while giving it a clean up of old needles etc, i figured the internal “good branches” like additional light over winter since its at a premium and by this time of the year all the crazy candles have extended so far im running out of space!
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: April 2nd, 2022, 6:24 pm
by shibui
When are you cutting back all these sacrafice branches?
Sacrifice branches get cut off when any one of a few things occur:
1. Trunk reaches the size I want
2. Sacrifice grows too strong and the keeper branches start to suffer
3. Sacrifice branches get too long and the pot falls on the ground almost every day
4. Sacrifice branch gets too thick and I start to worry about the scar after it is removed.
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: August 21st, 2022, 1:24 pm
by SuperBonSaiyan
Hi all,
I tried searching through this thread and couldn't find the answer - hoping someone could enlighten me.
When should you wire JBP? And is it okay to wire / style (as in just bending branches - not removing foliage or branches) at the same time as re-potting?
I ask as I've just re-potted (didn't remove any significant root mass) and I'm keen to do some wiring as well, but not sure if it would over-stress the tree?
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: August 22nd, 2022, 4:41 pm
by treeman
SuperBonSaiyan wrote: ↑August 21st, 2022, 1:24 pm
Hi all,
I tried searching through this thread and couldn't find the answer - hoping someone could enlighten me.
When should you wire JBP? And is it okay to wire / style (as in just bending branches - not removing foliage or branches) at the same time as re-potting?
I ask as I've just re-potted (didn't remove any significant root mass) and I'm keen to do some wiring as well, but not sure if it would over-stress the tree?
Never wire after repotting unless it is very minor and if it is you don't need to do now anyway.
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: January 19th, 2023, 6:19 pm
by Brisliam
Is it normal for my JBPs to push a second flush even if I haven’t decandled, or is this just prep work pushing for next year?
This is my first season of pine growing, sorry for the noob question.
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: January 21st, 2023, 2:32 pm
by Ryceman3
Brisliam wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 6:19 pm
Is it normal for my JBPs to push a second flush even if I haven’t decandled, or is this just prep work pushing for next year?
This is my first season of pine growing, sorry for the noob question.
Not uncommon Brisliam, my JBP in development regularly push extra flushes of growth without the “incentive” of decandling provided conditions are good.
No need to be sorry for any question either btw…
Welcome to the forum.
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: January 22nd, 2023, 5:00 pm
by Brisliam
Thx for the response and welcome!
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: January 23rd, 2023, 8:05 am
by SuperBonSaiyan
My 4~ year old JBP have lower branches in whorls.
There are about 5 branches from that one spot - 1 going up and 4 sideways.
How do I go about setting up a sideways sacrifice branch, whilst keeping the others contained and usable + prevent inverse taper?
Basically, I'd like to create as much taper as possible, whilst avoiding inverse taper anywhere.
I don't know how to do this, so looking for any advice - I can be patient and wait, I just don't know how to setup properly.
One idea I've thought of is to bend the top to the side (this way, the eventual cut isn't on a vertical section), and then let one of the side branches become the new leader.
This doesn't tell me what to do with the other 3 branches at the same junction though.
I figure a picture might help. H1-H4 are the horizontal branches, V1 is the vertical branch.
All the H1 - H4 branches have plenty of buds all along as well.
Thanks!
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: January 23rd, 2023, 5:22 pm
by Daluke
You should chop back to a small side branch and let that take off as the leader. Remove all else. If you leave two branches in the whorl you will get inverse taper or an ugly u shape gap. With heavy feeding and needle cuts you should get backbudding.
So in your diagram cut all but h3. H3 should shoot up as the leader and back bud so you have branch options.
Re: Japanese Black Pine - A Seasonal Guide
Posted: January 24th, 2023, 12:11 pm
by terryb
SuperBonSaiyan wrote: ↑January 23rd, 2023, 8:05 am
One idea I've thought of is to bend the top to the side (this way, the eventual cut isn't on a vertical section), and then let one of the side branches become the new leader.
Yes, this is one way to do it. Eric Schrader uses this technique with his black pines and there is an explanation in his youtube content (somewhere)
https://www.youtube.com/@Bonsaify/videos
SuperBonSaiyan wrote: ↑January 23rd, 2023, 8:05 am
This doesn't tell me what to do with the other 3 branches at the same junction though.
JBP are apically dominant and if you have a strong sacrifice, much of the energy goes to this branch. As such, the lower branches will be weaker. So while Daluke is correct that you will eventually get swelling if there is more than one branch at a whorl, in my experience it doesn't happen as quickly as in some other species if there is a strong sacrifice, so you have a little more time but you still need to be aware of it.
If you do bend the sacrifice as you suggested, then you can choose one of the other branches to be the new leader as suggested while the sacrifice still works for you and then transition to this leader as the sacrifice when you remove the first one. Depends on how tall you want the tree to be and the trunk thickness you are happy with.